In a bit of a distressed state at the moment

Dear Random,

I am glad that it sounds as though you are working your way through the crisis. I've been through some of those myself and I have also read up on some of the ideas for recognising one's state of mind and the ways of nudging one into a better frame of mind. Humans have very powerful, complex minds that can get stuck in downward, inward looking, spirals. Sometimes we need to be challenged to see what choices we still have and what choices we don't have. Sometimes we need to be challenged into realising that things are not actually as black as they seemed.

Thanks Sox, as always very incisive points you put forward; has certainly made we feel easier about it.

I think my anger is mostly down to unfairness of the situation and blatant disrespect for my feelings or privacy. 

I think I need to find a way to accept that is simply going to happen while I am renting here. If I was the owner, I would have more choice over what happens, and can put things in place to help, and eventually put a stop to it, but I don't have that control.

I notice one of the neighbours has grown a hedge practically the whole length of the garden, smart move. Maybe I shouldn't have been so keen to remove the ivy that had overgrown on some of the panels. It is astonishing how quickly a raspberry bush has grown after the owners cut down this beutiful pear tree without notice which I miss.

I guess one thing positive, is they are owners I beleive in this house, so unlikely to see different people move in or out on a regular basis.

I don't feel I should just give them free run of my home, there was a period in past when I did that, but things just seemed to escalate.

I am going to find a way where it doesn't affect me too much.

Try and put some more effort in to finding a new home of my own

Thanks,
Random 

random said:

This whole situation has been going through my mind the past few days

Trying to find a way forward through this, but seems impossible

It isn't impossible, you won't necessarily get exactly what you want but you have to work out whether you can manage to cope with occasional intrusions or whether you want to lose your home and move somewhere else.

It seems to me that you are viewing this in a very black and white, catastrophising way. Life is full of grey, sub-optimal, cruddy bits. Can you live with the fact that your desire for this level of privacy can give way to your need to keep this home?

As an alternative, could you build a fence across the garden so that people can cross part of it for access but you keep your privacy?

There has been a bit of a twist in developments in that I thought the neighbour entering my garden was immediate next door as they told me they had moved in next door. I discover Today infact they are the neighbour another door down.

My landlord doesn't own that property, so it is a different situation.

Just to clarify things, when my landlord purchased next door, she changed the boundary so most of what was next doors garden is now my garden. I didn't want it as I hate gardening, I even asked them to restore the boundary to make it easier to rent that proprty out. So after that change my garden is now beside 2 neigbour gardens.

Just by co-incidence, new tennants have moved next door around the same time. Although I have not seen them do it, it is likely that they have used my garden without my knowledge. I will give them the benefit of the doubt, I am not angry at them, but it has highlighted the u turn my landlord has made since I discussed the issue with them

This whole situation has been going through my mind the past few days

Trying to find a way forward through this, but seems impossible

Random

Moving this post to a different thread

> It seems these people think that just because you allow them to use your garden for moving furniture in they have a right to use it whenever they want to

Yes, that is certainly how I feel

I genuinely don't have a problem with just for moving in furniture, so long as I am given notice. In the past I had state this clearly, by agreeing to let them use it, but stating each time if you want to use it in the future please let me know beforehand. And on some occaisions, empthasising that if I am not in, please wait until I am in.

It just really infuriates me when I find them again in my garden, when they don't need to move any furniture.

This time I thought I would change tact, and just simply say no right from the start. I thought that would just make the whole situation clear.

That clearly has not worked, but at this moment, I feel part of the problem is that they just ignore me because they feel I am an easy push over.

I am concerned with response from the landlord, over 2 phone calls, she mentioned 5 times, if it upsets you that much you should think about moving" she just seems to want to wash her hands of the whole thing

Random

Hi lostmyway,

That's ok, no need to apologize, it is good to explore different perspectives, and also good to see what others might be thinking so I can work my way to a solution.

Thanks,

Random

In that case, random, I apologize because I didn't have the full picture.

It seems these people think that just because you allow them to use your garden for moving furniture in they have a right to use it whenever they want to, which is totally unacceptable of course. You have obviously been the victim here because the access that would have been available to your neighbours is now no longer so due to an illegal construction.

I can now well understand your concerns about new neighbours and how they will behave in the future. I would be very upset because of the abuse of privacy and your landlord really isn't doing their job by not being stringent enough with the tenants. All I can suggest is that you keep making a nuisance of yourself with the landlord, random, until you get some satisfaction.

Can't notices be put up by your landlord?

I wish I could be of more use.

Hi,

Thanks for the response;

> unless, of course, the new tenants are choosing to use random's garden when they don't really need to. 

That is exactly what has been happening in the past with 3 tennants. (on 2 occaisions have found several people at same time)

> I could understand it if people were simply trying to harass random 

That is exactly what has happened with previous tennant:

I first found them in my garden when I was in on a hot day with window open and tv on. I aproached them, explaining this was my home, showing them the boundary to my property, and asking them to leave. I was angry, but was very direct and clear with what I was saying, no swearing, and not in an agressive manner. Their response was a torrent of abuse, they left. I phoned landlords, they told me not to worry about it, they will not put up with that behaviour, and they were prospective tennats who would not be given the tenancy.

Two weeks later same person knocked on door with a smug smile spent fifteen minutes literally begging to use garden to move furniture, after I repeatedly refued. I just wanted rid of him, so told him "just this once" I would let him move furniture. I continued to spot them in the garden on a regular basis.

I met with the landlords that time 2 years ago, I told them as they had already moved this tennant in, I didn't want to antogonise the situation. I said when the next tennants move in, I would be refusing all access to the garden, which they said they understood how I felt, and agreed to support me.

You mention my sensitivites, yes this affects me is much stronger than an NT. When the autism diagnostic team was supporting me, I have visits from a mental health nurse roughly every 2 weeks, when I described what was happening. She was genuinely shocked and angry about it.

At that time though I was biding my time, until next tennants moved in, so I could follow through what I had already discussed and agreed with the landlords.

It took a lot of energy on my part to meet and discuss this with the landlords 2 years ago. In the mean time they had changed their minds, but did not let me know. 

I don't have a problem with them just using it to move large furniture in/out so long as I am given reasonable notice. I don't really know why that continues to fail. I don't feel I have done anything wrong here ?

I am the one suffering with it, and even though an NT would not be affected so much, I don't feel they would be acceptable to the situation either (I am talking about the aspect of them using garden when they don't need to, or without notice)

Random

To give some historic context to this, the house next door was purchased by the landlords several years after I had moved in. Next door is an end terrace house, my house is detached. There was an access way in next doors boundary, which gave them free access to their back garden. The previous owners extended their property in to this space without planning permission

Random

NAS18906 said:

The issue is probably that Random is really struggling to cope with dealing with his neighbours and is in danger of being unable to cope with the loss of privacy. This wouldn't be much of a deal for an NT person but Random hasn't found a good way of accepting this loss of privacy.

It seems to me that there are two options.

a) Move to a more isolated location and give up the job.

b) Work out how to cope with the unwanted intrusions. Ultimately it is the landlord's property and you may have less rights to control what happens in the garden. The landlord may have told the new neighbours that they have to inform you that they intend to use your garden whereas you thought that they had to have your permission. Is it the end of the world if they inform you that they want to have access and you can then shut the curtains and ignore them until they are finished?

I basically agree with this because, ok, random does have special problems surrounding loss of privacy, however, to look at the other side, the new tenants have a right to move in their furniture and if there is no other access what choice have they got? As long as they have asked random's permission, initially, I don't really see what else can be done. As long as people let random know on each occassion they move in or out of the neighbouring flat, it's difficult to see what else they can do. 

I could understand it if people were simply trying to harass random out of some perverted pleasure but here it seems it is a case of somebody wanting to get on with their lives by moving. I'm still struggling a bit to understand why this is such a big issue, unless, of course, the new tenants are choosing to use random's garden when they don't really need to. If they have no other choice what are they supposed to do?

To be fair, you cannot expect complete strangers to be aware of randon's special needs and I don't wish to seem unsympathetic to random but they have rights too and I think we all have to respect one another's rights as far as possible. It is possible there are things going on here I'm not aware of so I can only comment on the information given.

I, too, experience sensory problems so I can easily identify with random's suffering but the world if full of stuff that can easily upset people like us and sometimes, I think, we just have to 'bite the bullet' and say to ourselves that it will pass.

The thing that would bother me a bit about this situation though is the fear that, once having allowed someone to use access to my garden, they don't take that as a green light to wander about in it as they please. This is something random would have to guard against and I have no reason to think this is what has happned, from the information random has supplied.

Thanks for response Matt, that was something I had noted down to ask, but I just lost control of the conversation so it got lost.

Probably a decade ago now, I had ongoing maintenance problems (a fair few of them still unresolved). I decided to write them a letter about it, but got a fairly sharp phone call stating they wanted to deal over the phone or face to face, not with letters.

I think I will try and get their email, and am wondering whether to mention my aspergers to them and problems I have been experienced. During the phone calls Today she made two references that they like their neigbours to get on with each other. Implying to me that I was the problem tennant.

Another comment I am uncomfortable with, I feel the problem I have with current tennant is down to her mis communication. She should have told me that she had changed her mind about letting the tennants have access. Instead she just left it, in the knowledge it would distress me, and to deal with it, just tell me to basically put up with it or leave.

The tenancy agreement should protect me from this, as there is no access to neighbouring property, and I have the right to peaceful enjoyment of the property which clearly this situation and landlords actions breach. Problem is the tenancy agreement as far as I am concerned is printed on bog roll, as it gives no protection to me, but if I step the slightest bit out of line, they come down like a ton of bricks.

Just angry about the dire rotten to the core housing situation in this country; Sadly my landlords are relatively good in the private housing sector

I have been wondering how my new neighbour would react if he was living in my house, in same situation.

Random 

I have just phoned the owners, I struggled to put my points forward, but I said

I was very unhappy about the situation, and don't know what the best way forward is. I added that in the meantime I would tollerate neighbours using my garden only when:

a) They wanted to move large items they can't fit in the front door.

b) To be given notice through the owners.

Was a bit of an awkward phone call, but less tense than the one this morning. I did say that I have been thinking of ways things could be done to have less impact on myself, but need more space to think about them.

I said what I wanted to avoid is situations where I have made it clear that I want notice only to find them in the garden without letting me know on repeated occaisions.

I felt I was being listened too, but some of the reaction I am unsettled about. She repeated three times "to be honest, if it is making you unhappy, you should think about moving."

I explain a move is a very big thing, I don't want to move, and this has been my home for a long time.

Was really struggling with the conversation, and my voice continually breaking up, long breaks in sentences.

Random

random said:

It is behaviour I would never dream about doing myself.

But then you aren't a "muggle". You are no more able to change the way that muggles work than Canute could stop the tide.

Perhaps, if you expect them to behave like muggles then you won't be disappointed and, more importantly, you won't get so angry about it? (This is anger management in action)

Thanks for all the replies,

> random, surely when they've moved in that will be the end of it won't it?

You would have thought so, but tennants move out eventually and new tennants move in. I was flexible before, and made it clear to for tennants to let me know with reasonable notice any time before.

Problem is, once they have access one time, they seem to think it is automatically ok to come in to garden again without notice. Although I have clearly stated to them that I need the notice.

This is with several different tennants over the years, not just one ot two.

It is behaviour I would never dream about doing myself.

I am usually mostly at work, but last year I would take holiday for four seperate weeks; in each week I was at home, I would spot them using my garden. I wouldn't spot them all the time, so I expect it was a regular occurence.

Random

The neighbour - our homes are our caves, havens.  I'm very sorry that this has been so very upsetting for you.  Move?  Stressful and there'll be costs.  You may have no further issues with these neighbours.  I Hope things are a lot better for you today.

The issue is probably that Random is really struggling to cope with dealing with his neighbours and is in danger of being unable to cope with the loss of privacy. This wouldn't be much of a deal for an NT person but Random hasn't found a good way of accepting this loss of privacy.

It seems to me that there are two options.

a) Move to a more isolated location and give up the job.

b) Work out how to cope with the unwanted intrusions. Ultimately it is the landlord's property and you may have less rights to control what happens in the garden. The landlord may have told the new neighbours that they have to inform you that they intend to use your garden whereas you thought that they had to have your permission. Is it the end of the world if they inform you that they want to have access and you can then shut the curtains and ignore them until they are finished?

random, surely when they've moved in that will be the end of it won't it?

As rbs asked, do they have any other way of moving large items into the property? If not, I don't really see what else they can do, after all, they have to get their stuff in.

I have lived here for 18 years, and comparable rent for similar property in this area is out of my reach. Downsizing is not really an option, as I need privacy and space. Even if I could, it would not make a big difference in my finances.

Random

random said:

... but problem is, that means leaving my job as well

Random

Why?