Speaking to someone new

Hi Random,

What an interesting thread, I'm glad you posted again or I might never have seen it.

I happy for you that you managed to speak to the musicians - I know just how hard that can be to do.  I like to attend smallish gigs too, very often where the musicians mix with the crowd before and after their set, and find that same problem of (a) struggling to find an opening where I might speak, and (b) knowing what the heck to say when I do.  I feel like I often come across like a little kid.   "I really enjoyed that...", and then unable to elaborate on why their music means so much to me - even though I might be able to talk for an hour to a friend about the same music.  Who knows, maybe they are flattered because I seem so "star struck"!

I can appreciate it from the other side too.  The picture that RecombinantSocks paints of the socially awkward, introverted artist is very much a portrait of me when I used to play in bands.  I found that when people approached me after a gig, no matter how enthusiastic they were, I could find little to say other than a timid "thanks".  I actually gave up performing live, and left one band before a short tour of Europe, because I couldn't handle the social side of performing.  Being expected to attend after gig parties several nights on the trot was more that I could cope with, and left me too drained to give a good performance at the gigs that followed.

A bit of an update to this old thread. I attended another music event in London at the weekend. It was a different band with the same musician(piano) with another member(violin). It was a smaller venue, and one I had visited before. Again I desperately wanted to start a conversation, and there were opportunities I missed. I was there early, they kindly let me in while they were practising. I tried so hard, standing up from my seat a couple of times to get his attention when he was about 3 feet away from me, but was heavilly in conversation with a group of four females, and I think 2 of them were either partners or close friends.

I had taken my cd of the music with me to hopefully get signed, I thought I would try again at the end of the performance; I was about to leave, and one musician was back on stage packing up. I just managed to catch his attention and asked him to autograph the cd which he kindly did and we had a brief conversation, I did feel awkward in the conversation, but was so happy to be speaking with him; I think he may have asperger traits himself.

I then was slowly walking out of the venue, and saw the other musician in the band talking to someone else, so aproached him and asked him to sign my cd, and again had a conversation with him, felt very awkward, and found it difficult to respond to him, I seem to not say what I am feeling. We talked about listening to music at work, and I explained that I listen to different music at work than I do at home. He asked what music I listened to at work, and my mind just went blank. Anyway it was nice speaking to him, and I have discovered he has played on four tracks I like with different bands, including Hans Zimmer on the Interstellar soundtrack played at the Royal Albert Hall, one I my favourite pieces of music in recent years.

Afterwards, I was really pleased that I had spoke to them, with the added bonus of getting my cd signed. I just felt awkward with my conversation, was very difficult with two people I have really admired their work. I didn't think I would be able to do it, and try to calm myselft down with the dissapointment of leaving again and not speaking to them

I have another bigger event in April I need to socialise in, trying to prepare myself for that

I guess having the cd and asking for a signature gave me a "prompt" to start an engagement in a conversation. I wont be able to do that at the next event, signatures forbidden

Random.

I remember my mum always expected NOT to be served amd her expectations were generally fulfilled.  I think it was because she wd drill the barmaid or waitress or whatever with a hard continuous stare.  My theory ws that she was ignored because of the stare, when what the counter staff wanted was a friendly smile.  I've had similar problems to hers and I think my friendly smile doesn't measure up.  Say la vee!

random said:

the musicians were expected to be open.

But isn't that, almost by defintiion, an NT expectation? I don't know about you but I regularly fail to meet NT expectations.

A picture begins to emerge of the artist, awkward, shy and anxious, smoking during the intervals to calm his nerves and unable to bring himself to speak to his fans due to poor social confidence. An expert in his field through hours of practice in his narrow field of special interest. Perhaps he hopes to be judged on his skill as a musician rather than on his social finesse? His fans, who are not unsympathetic to his plight, if only they could understand it, are critical through their inability to see into the private world of the musician. He is unable to explain to his managers, due to his communication problems, that their reasonable expectations are actually unachievable by him. A cycle of criticism and disappointment, unmet promises ensues to the point where his talent, i.e. his music, suffers. He attends the social occasions on condition that his partner attends too. The partner cajoles and encourages but is frustrated by the lack of success that the musician enjoys.

NAS18906 said:

The musician, and his partner, were behaving the same as I would with my wife. We keep to ourselves and do not go looking for new people to talk to. Perhaps part of this problem wasn't all about you but had something to do with shyness and introversion on the musician's side?

Yes, that seems likely, when he speaks during his performances he does sound shy and anxious; 

The reception was put on by the hosts of the event, after the end of the gig the host mentioned the reception and said it was for the audience to speak with the musicians and ask about their music and instruments. In that respect it was a little different to a general social situation, the musicians were expected to be open.

When I bumped in to him walking outside when he was having a smoking break. We had eye contact, and that was my point, but he was still with his partner, and I didn't want to disturb them.

Oh how I identify with you! The thought of speaking with someone gives me huge anxieties, and in my working life I've had to talk with some very 'powerful' people.

Colleagues, especially 'junior' ones, have often said that I give off waves of 'dangerous animal, do not approach' and I've no idea why. Asking has never elicited an understandable response, 'it's your expression' doesn't tell me anything, of course. I've tried, with limited success, to explain that when I'm absorbed I don't welcome interruption, and maybe my expression reflects the concentration I have to use to do so.

As I can't read such signals as expression and body language, I accept that it's an issue but have no idea what it means or what to do about it. I've tried wearing a 'mask' by practising what I thought, by observation, to be an 'open' expression (basicaly anything but my normal one) in front of a mirror, but I just looked to me like some sort of gurning idiot so abandoned that as a possibility.

It's terribly frustrating to want to talk to someone but at the same time suffer the excrutiating innability to know how to do it. I know what I want to say but it never comes out right, I never know when the appropriate moment to interject has arrived, and I can't sustain a conversation anyway so 'dry up' pretty quickly and then it just becomes awkward. Knowing that this is going to be the case makes me twice as shy, so often I'm left in the same agony of indecision. My frustration is knowing that it'll happen, and still being unable to get past it.

I rely on communicating in writing, so I wonder of there's any possibility that you can contact them the same way, explain yourself, and maybe 'create' an opportunity to speak with them?

The musician, and his partner, were behaving the same as I would with my wife. We keep to ourselves and do not go looking for new people to talk to. Perhaps part of this problem wasn't all about you but had something to do with shyness and introversion on the musician's side?

This is familiar territory, hoping to get a chance to speak to someone when everyone else is too.

You may find it is your eye contact and facial expression and general body language letting you down. I have trouble getting served in bars or in shops for the same reason.

I don't have obvious poor eye contact, so I'm told, but I'm not sure what that really means. When I'm talking to someone I mostly look at their mouth.

But there is much more too it. When I have asked other people why they think I'm not getting across, it seems I'm usually sending messages like don't come near me, or I'm angry.

In those sorts of situations, if my experience reads across, when you are waiting for your turn to speak, it doesn't look to that person or the people around him that you are waiting your turn. It probably looks more like you are about to attack him with a machete or you're beginning to have a heart attack.

So it is not just that you don't feel it is the right time to butt in, you may not look as if you are trying to do so.

And I don't think being forward would be the best policy anyway. I cannot get my distance right, or my pitch right. There's no guarantee meaningful speech will come out. And I know from feedback I don't look friendly, no matter how hard I try.

Non-autistic people just seem to make the right stance and expression whereby the person they want to speak to notices them and comes over. For them it is not about being forward, rather about being receptive, even inviting, and safe to approach.

With autism there is no way you can do that without a lot of practice and acting out. I try being as hospitable and cheery as possible and making a move as eaerly as possible - be the first to buttonhole him (ie get his attention and talk to him before anyone else gets a look in).