Possible PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) ?

PDA is a specific autistic profile - meaning that the autistic person has a persistent drive for autonomy and that the nervous system can perceive hierarchy, inequality or authority (loss of autonomy) as threats to survival. There are many other PDA experiences, here are some links to more information:

https://youtube.com/@kristyforbes?si=8VZw1mCxYy0Q-IRy

This YouTube channel is by Kristy Forbes who is an adult PDAer who specialises in supporting other PDAers and families. Really important information about the PDA nervous system on this channel.

More videos about PDA by PDAers:

https://www.youtube.com/live/ryWUrEoZgDY?si=mAng1ROmdrYdLuPm

https://www.youtube.com/live/cqf9hlpSz5E?si=-1rcYoZEbuNbiayf

You may also want to visit the Autism Understood website and search for PDA specifically.

I hope this helps.

My diagnosis report states the profile type as PDA.

It's taken a while  to figure out what that really means, there's so many things that I do which are PDA driven but I wasn't aware. I used to just think it manifests as procrastination , but it's so much more than that. 

Demand can come in many forms and my reaction to it can be almost allergic, like I'm startled by some things and fight or flight (or freeze) can kick in.

These range from invites to social events, people popping up with a message saying "got a min to talk?" , things I need to do at work that I don't feel bought into (I'm not great with just being told, I have to "believe" to do things) 

It's all good fun!

Autisician said:

I'm not great with just being told, I have to "believe" to do things

This one is a real job killer.

I get where it comes from - probably your moral compass that needs things to align with what you think is right or the correct way to do things.

Unfortunately we are in a hierarchy where we do what we are told and not doing it because we think it isn't right will end up getting you fired after a while.

It really helps to work with a coach to learn how to pass your concerns back to your manager in a timely way and be willing to accept their decision.

Sometimes it sucks but without this system the management no longer trust you to do your job and will find ways to make you leave  - and quite rightly so.

It takes a lot of work to suck it up and just accept that you can't do anything about it but finding a way to disconnect from the decision (ie it's only a job) and get on with the task makes surviving in the workplace much easier.

If the thing you are asked to do is illegal then you have grounds to refuse but if it is down to it being a poor choice, inefficient or just against your personal codes then switch off the "give a fug" setting and think "at least I'm getting paid to do this stuff".

Workplaces - the biggest risk to mental health for autists since school!

Autisician said:

I'm not great with just being told, I have to "believe" to do things

This one is a real job killer.

I get where it comes from - probably your moral compass that needs things to align with what you think is right or the correct way to do things.

Unfortunately we are in a hierarchy where we do what we are told and not doing it because we think it isn't right will end up getting you fired after a while.

It really helps to work with a coach to learn how to pass your concerns back to your manager in a timely way and be willing to accept their decision.

Sometimes it sucks but without this system the management no longer trust you to do your job and will find ways to make you leave  - and quite rightly so.

It takes a lot of work to suck it up and just accept that you can't do anything about it but finding a way to disconnect from the decision (ie it's only a job) and get on with the task makes surviving in the workplace much easier.

If the thing you are asked to do is illegal then you have grounds to refuse but if it is down to it being a poor choice, inefficient or just against your personal codes then switch off the "give a fug" setting and think "at least I'm getting paid to do this stuff".

Workplaces - the biggest risk to mental health for autists since school!

What is worse than not being able to look yourself in the eye? A job is a job, important yes, but it's not that important.

A coach that teaches you useful stuff that you both need and want to learn is totally different to someone who hassles you.

I'm not self sabotaging, I do not have a crappy made in China compass, I have a real one that works, it may not be perfect, but it's served me well over the years

I might not be a rich or successful person in the ways the world tends to see it, but I'd far rather be a principled person than either of the above, of course being all of them would be best, lol. But often not possible.

TheCatWoman said:

That's another thing, coach's WTF? People who get paid to hassle you into doing things you don't want to,

A coach is "someone who instructs or trains":

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coach

If you don't want to do it, don't hire a coach. The context of my reply was that you would be the one wanting to learn. If you are happy with letting yourself self-sabotage because of your made-in-China compass then that if fine, but for those who want to do better, it is a good option.

Life Coaches are a modern pox on the gullable. Coaches who teach you a practical skill are really worthwhile in my opinion.

TheCatWoman said:

If you have a principle then it is a thing you stand on like the captain on the deck of a sinking ship. I cannot just switch it off, it's put me in some very uncomfortable positions, some where I've felt physically under threat, but I still can't give in

You understand the harm this can do to someone with a career in front of them - if they can learn to deal with it an ignore it when they need to then it can save them from losing a job or worse.

I think I prefer Tom Waites Gotten Me a Chocolate Jesus, myself.

I'm the same, if I'm told to believe I'm less likely to. It would feel like there must be something wrong if they had to tell me to agree.

I need to believe something is the right thing to do , from what I see and think of it myself, otherwise it gets stuck in my throat like your oath example would.

Life Coaches, yeah what's that all about? Can't imagine being that convinced of something that I'd go and force it on others and expect to get paid! Reminds me of the song "personal jesus" a bit.

If anyone says to me that I have to believe for something to work then its an immediate red flag that the person telling me to believe is somekind of con artist.

My moral compass is a bit wonky, in some ways it's like Pirates of the Carribean's Capt Jack Sparrow's, compass that points at whatever he wants and in other's it's very strong and there are things I WILL NOT do! It dosen't matter if I'm getting paid for it, it doesn't matter if I'm punished in some way, I will still not do it. If you have a principle then it is a thing you stand on like the captain on the deck of a sinking ship. I cannot just switch it off, it's put me in some very uncomfortable positions, some where I've felt physically under threat, but I still can't give in, its not in me to do so, it's like I could never take an oath on the bible or to the monarch, the words would just stick in my throat, I think I'd feel ill if I said them under duress. I wouldn't be able to look myself in the eye and surely at the end of the day thats one of the most important things in life, self respect? How could anyone believe that after all that duress and distress and being hassled by a coach that my conversion was genuine?

That's another thing, coach's WTF? People who get paid to hassle you into doing things you don't want to, it might be that I have such a negative veiw of them because my ex husband wanted to retrain as a life coach, which I found both disturbing and hilarious in equal measure.

I guess reading this back I've probably got that other thing they lable naughty people as.

As I understand what you are saying, it is something which is innate to one's being. I think I was trying to say, in my reductionist way of communicating the soup that inhabits my head. ..telling yourself something as a way to mitigate /override the demand, doesn't work. Or from my experience I do it anyway to keep the peace, internalise it, but then this is not avoiding it. I understand a bit more, I think, the nature of what are simply "demsnds" and something which is more .....problematic. I am also aware, it often isn't as simple as "someone in authority has told me to do something and i have a problem with that", because quite often, it is demands on the self from the self. 

I'm not so sure that a pathology can be so easily rationalised and/or internalised.  I think it can be hidden and/or obfuscated if one has the skills you mention.....but at it's heart, it's as strong as a devotee to their faith of choice, or as "unhelpful" as an addict's connection to their addiction.  It is profound and embedded.  It is not "reason" based.

Totally agree, I find it very hard to, but have to go along with some things for these very reasons.

I find that a lot of things are driven by people's ego, politics and empire building, which goes against my moral compass. There's so much illogical waste. People get on for what they're perceived to have done not actually done, usually by riding on the backs of those who work hard. It feels like the majority find that normal and easy to go along with, while I see it for what it is and don't want to endorse it.

As you say to some extent that's how the works works so we have to fit in with it, but as it's not natural for us it's another instance of masking to get through.

It's so similar to school, which was one of the toughest times for me, I hated every minute of it.

I agree with the majority of what you say but I think depending on ones personality and, actually having a good level of social awareness, a lot of it can be internalised. Switching to the "at least I'm getting paid to do this stuff" is sometimes a bit like masking within masking. Or masking from yourself.