Published on 12, July, 2020
DSM-5 says that to meet the diagnostic criteria for ASD there must be persistent deficits in all three of the areas below.
So why is it some of us are completely alone and isolated while others seem to have friends, partners and active social lives?
How do people who meet the above criteria achieve this?
Some autistic people can see that if they wish to achieve their goals in life that they have to push themselves and do uncomfortable things, others either cannot see this, or have genuine limitations that make it impossible.
For example, I make apparently 'normal' levels of eye contact, but I do so entirely consciously, I time when and for how long I make eye contact when talking to someone. I do not have a neurotypical unconscious ability to do this, but I compensate for this by using my conscious intellect. As a result the neurotypical majority find me comfortable to talk to, and that helps with making friendly connections. An autistic unwilling or unable to make such a concession to neurotypical norms, would find it much more difficult to make friendly connections. Therefore, you can have two people who are equally autistic, both with eye contact difficulties, producing two very different social outcomes.
Martin said: both with eye contact difficulties,
Eye contact is just a non autistic cultural expectation though. This becomes even more obvious when you realise that some other cultures around the world find the social expectation of eye contact offensive or too intimate.
I'm not really sure how I "get away with it" with humans. I've done, whatever it is that I've done, for so long now, that it isn't concious........EXCEPT when I do suddenly "link eyes" with someone! Then it feels too weirdly intimate and creepy most of the time - although context is everything - and I can hide my sense of WTAF sufficiently well that people don't (generally) realise. I am deemed quite "full on" IRL I think, and that's without meeting peoples eyes.
Thank you.
yet. it is so easy with animals and so hard with humans. what are your thoughts about that? why is it so different. I just end up looking at (hunan's) their mouth or something.
that is a very illuminating and refreshing way of looking at it.
Yes - but those particular African cultures DO acknowledge the importance of it.....by expressly excluding it....in the same way that it is NEVER a good idea to stare intently into the eyes of a nervous animal in the wrong way!
[IMPORTANT DISABMBIGUATION - I am NOT suggesting that particular African cultures are nervous animals. It makes me sad that I feel the need to explain this....but I also feel that we now have an existence where this type is disambiguation is required by the digital world!]
Number said: If you can't use words, you are left with body language......the eyes are especially expressive.
Yes I completely agree, there is a reason why the eyes are known to be a window to the soul.
But what I was trying to convey is that some cultures for example in Africa may not value eye contact.
Dogs, horses, birds, cats, rabbits, goats......are the first ones that spring to mind......but it's pretty universal in my experience. If you can't use words, you are left with body language......the eyes are especially expressive.
Number said:inter-species communication...
What is your inter-species?
I'm not sure that's true.....in my inter-species communication.....eye contact is ABSOLUTELY essential....so cultural expectations do not fall within the remit of other species?!
Martin said:I have interaction on a regular basis with one other autistic person, my daughter. Being good at communicating with other autistics is a vanishingly small advantage to me, whereas being able to communicate effectively with neurotypicals is of immense advantage.
Yes I completely understand what you mean, we autistics are a minority group in a predominant neurotype world.
Martin said:The vast majority of the people in society at large are neurotypical; if you do not live in an autistic bubble - and surely the majority of autistics do not - then finding friends and romantic partners means, by default, finding neurotypical friends and partners. If, as an autistic person, you can put neurotypicals at ease and smooth the way to deeper connections by outwardly confirming to neurotypical communication norms, then making friendships and romantic partnerships becomes much easier.
Yes I understand, in some ways it's about finding a balance between both autistic and predominant neurotype cultures whilst still meeting your needs including for deep connections.
You may find this graphic interesting:
Ausomely Autistic said:If your definition of socially successful is willing to perform superficial interactions, then yes I understand. But to be honest the majority of neurotypical interactions are very surface level. I wouldn’t use the term socially successful but to me that means a very different thing. I deem success by genuine meaningful connections with a sense of belonging with deep interactions and discussions which by our very nature, we autistics achieve very naturally.
If your definition of socially successful is willing to perform superficial interactions, then yes I understand. But to be honest the majority of neurotypical interactions are very surface level.
I wouldn’t use the term socially successful but to me that means a very different thing. I deem success by genuine meaningful connections with a sense of belonging with deep interactions and discussions which by our very nature, we autistics achieve very naturally.
I have interaction on a regular basis with one other autistic person, my daughter. Being good at communicating with other autistics is a vanishingly small advantage to me, whereas being able to communicate effectively with neurotypicals is of immense advantage.
If you wish to achieve 'meaningful connections' with any one, then the 'surface level' mundanities are a vital preliminary step. The vast majority of the people in society at large are neurotypical; if you do not live in an autistic bubble - and surely the majority of autistics do not - then finding friends and romantic partners means, by default, finding neurotypical friends and partners. If, as an autistic person, you can put neurotypicals at ease and smooth the way to deeper connections by outwardly confirming to neurotypical communication norms, then making friendships and romantic partnerships becomes much easier.
Martin said:If the majority of society, and society in the UK and the rest of 'The West' certainly do, demand it for their interpersonal comfort, then being an autistic person who can meet this demand is a very definite social advantage.
I understand your point but that’s like saying if you speak a different language you are at a disadvantage which you are to some degree.
Martin said:The original poster was asking why some autistics are more socially successful than others, in this context my example is, I think, quite apposite and illustrative.
The etiology of eye contact is of no importance from a social viewpoint. If the majority of society, and society in the UK and the rest of 'The West' certainly do, demand it for their interpersonal comfort, then being an autistic person who can meet this demand is a very definite social advantage.
The original poster was asking why some autistics are more socially successful than others, in this context my example is, I think, quite apposite and illustrative.