Published on 12, July, 2020
Have you ever had to interact with a certain type of autistic person who believes that their autism gives them a right to your silence? As an autistic person myself I find it incredibly irritating.
like many autistic people i’m used to getting comments about ‘you’re shouting’ when I’m not shouting but I’m talking more loudly than people expect. For me Stimming can be something as simple as humming a musical under my breath. Something that is likely to indicate that I’m stressed out. In fact I’m more stressed out I am the more likely I am to be making some kind of ‘noise.’ Humming, tapping, singing etc. and of course what stresses me out more is being told I’m making ‘noise’ and I need to stop or else.
absolutely one of the most offensive things you can possibly do is to tell me I am ‘laughing too loud.’ because to enjoy humour and comedy you have to have a lack of self consciousness and it’s absolutely impossible to have a lack of self consciousness if you are worrying about ‘laughing too loud.’
so to those people who think autism gives them a right to demand quietness, to turn the whole world into a library (and I say it as someone who likes libraries) I have to say to you respectfully no it doesn’t. Here’s a set of earplugs, deal with it.
but in truth what offends me the most is them speaking on my behalf. equating autism with this supersensitivity to sound. A lot of us do not get this. A lot of us struggle with social issues; it is after all one of the defining aspects of autism, and it’s really unhelpful when Neurotypicals get the wrong end of the stick and think that autism is just somehow some sort of super sensitive hearing / touch thing. Because from my point of view the thing Neurotypicals really need to understand is how autism affects social interaction.
that is one of the two major things all autistic people share, issues with social interaction. it’s the aspect Neurotypicals tend to really struggle to get their heads around. It’s really un helpful when people paint this inaccurate picture of the autistic presentation. You know the stereotype. If you’re autistic you’ve got to be really quiet and painfully polite and a real indoors introvert that would rather deal with animals than people. Someone who can’t stand noise and hates a party and is really adverse to confrontation. A completely rubbish stereotype that is completely the opposite of people like me.
The person in the room laughing the loudest at the most inappropriate joke. The person who is always trying to stave off boredom and likes a good party and dancing to loud music. The guy looking to turn the conversation to something interesting and weird because every day life is so banal. It would be nice for me personally if we could have a bit of representation among the autistic community that represents me. It’s bad enough that the media gets it wrong, it’s intolerable when other autistic people present the quiet stereotypes as being authentic.
I prefer the quiet ones if I'm honest. Loud makes me uncomfortable which is why I wear my headphones every time I have to go out.
A quiet environment is the place for me. A loud environment can quickly turn in to a meltdown or shutdown, best to avoid those if possible.
I'm all in faviour of compromise. the best kind are those where everyone gets what they want. of course obviously not in the same place at the same time.
Peter said:so to those people who think autism gives them a right to demand quietness, to turn the whole world into a library (and I say it as someone who likes libraries) I have to say to you respectfully no it doesn’t. Here’s a set of earplugs, deal with it.
So we don’t have a right to quiet, but you do have a right to make excess noise?
That doesn’t sound very fair or equitable does it? Why should your needs trump other peoples’?
Perhaps a bit of compromise and understanding would be better?
I will just add here that you don't get 'loud' hours/evenings in supermarkets and places to visit with extra loud noise (LOL) and where the lights are also turned up high.
You don’t need to you can go to a nightclub. But you do get things like autistic friendly cinema screenings, and one of the things about autistic friendly cinema screenings is if there is a child who making a lot of noise The other parents tend to understand it is because that child is autistic and therefore don’t give the parents grief. So in that sense yes there is a loud version of the cinema screening, where in an environment where you’re normally expected to be reasonably quiet more noise is acceptable.
i’m not saying sensory issues aren’t real. I’m saying quietness as a personality trait is not intrinsic to autism but many people present it as if it is and I find this unhelpful and aggravating because it causes people to think I cannot be autistic. Because it means that my needs and accommodations are not met because they are on the opposite poler end of what people are expecting.
It’s important to distinguish between an authentic experience and the authentic experience of the so-called definitive experience. I thought that was clear.
also I’m not convinced that oversensitivity has much to do with quietness. as many have pointed out you can tolerate your own noise much better than others. i’m talking about quiet as a personality trait. I’m talking about introversion and passiveness. an aversion not just to a specific type of sensory input but excitement in general.
but purely as an aside sensory issues has only recently been added to the repetitive / restricted behaviours criteria. And it’s perfectly possible to satisfy that criteria without any sensory issues.
there are some autistic people to act as if autism validates their personality traits and is deeply and synonymously connected with their personality traits of introversion and an aversion to excitement. people knowingly or more often unknowingly do genuinely present these personality traits as being part of their autism. And frankly I wish they’d stop
Autonomistic said: I am that stereotype so am I not authentic?
There is a difference between the authentic experience and an authentic experience. It’s the difference between saying ‘autistic people struggle with X,’ or even ‘because I’m autistic I struggle with X,’ and seeing instead ‘like many autistic people I struggle with X.’
The first two tacitly imply that it’s all autistic people can feel that way. and I know you’ll probably tell me you never mean to give that impression. The people who talk that way never mean to do so. They just get so focused on their own experience they forget that it isn’t definitive and that when they’re explaining their flavour of autism to other people who’s understanding they require they need to explicitly explain that other flavours also exist.
Autonomistic said:The stereotype you have described above 'is really adverse to confrontation'
Well for starters people tend to be a lot more comfortable with confrontation on the Internet. They also tend to be a lot more comfortable if they can do it indirectly or passively, say by complaining to a third-party instead of to your face. But I’m not trying to claim but there is one unified quiet type of autism, there are certainly flavours of quiet confrontation.
I cannot recommend them highly enough!
I know it wasn't for me but thank you for posting a link. This is something I think would be very beneficial for me too, should make shopping a lot more bearable lol, I hope.
many thanks !!
Uhane said:what are these loops and where can I get them!!
https://www.loopearplugs.com/
what are these loops and where can I get them!!
Peter said:It’s bad enough that the media gets it wrong, it’s intolerable when other autistic people present the quiet stereotypes as being authentic.
The changes tend to ?always? be around reducing stimuli.
I don't think that these (hard won) accommodations can be based on a misunderstanding of the facts
Autonomistic said:No wonder people don't understand autism when the NHS can't even get it right
Autonomistic said:The DSM-5 changed to specifically include sensory differences in the diagnostic criteria in 2013 I believe, so certainly not a new change.
Absolutely
Autonomistic said:I recently came across this interesting document, which reframes autism as primarily a sensory processing difference.
That you for that.
I shall 'take a gander'.
I've never been to a gig, too many people for me though the noise would likely be too much as well. I prefer listening to records from the comfort and safety of my own home, although, a gig is something I still wish to experience one day... If I can get my anxiety in to a better place where it doesn't affect me as greatly.
As does Nick Walker (she/her) autistic academic and advocate of the Neurodiversity Paradigm:
https://neuroqueer.com/what-is-autism/
I love that we have LCD TVs now because I could always hear a whine from the old CRT TVs. I often hear it from power transformers too.
Surprisingly, the NHS doesn't see these sensitivities as a 'main' sign of autism
No wonder people don't understand autism when the NHS can't even get it right. On their page for signs of autism in children it includes:
However that is listed under young children and there is no mention of sensory issues under the older children list
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism/signs/children/
Sensory issues don't go away when we get older, they still affect us just as much but we become better at hiding (masking) our distress
The DSM-5 changed to specifically include sensory differences in the diagnostic criteria in 2013 I believe, so certainly not a new change.
I recently came across this interesting document, which reframes autism as primarily a sensory processing difference.
https://www.ndti.org.uk/assets/files/Its-not-rocket-science-V6.pdf
"Autism is viewed as a sensory processing difference. Information from all of the senses can become overwhelming and can take more time to process. This can cause meltdown or shutdown. Neurotypical brains often divert information from the senses, so they don’t have to process as much information."
This does seem to be the direction that understanding of autism is going. Our senses are integral to everything we experience in the world.
"Autism is not well understood. As a result, collectively, autistic people are not well understood. As Beardon (2017:18) states, ‘the very fact that there is more than one set of diagnostic criteria establishes the fact that we don’t yet have any consensus in terms of how we collectively understand autism’."
The documents also highlights that "some autistic people’s needs will conflict with each other", which is essentially what we are discussing here.
i think im probably more stereotype... i have weird hearing where i can still even hear the high pitched cat alarms which your supposedly not supposed to hear past the age of 16 or 18 or something but im nearly 34 now and can still hear those frequencies. i dont like a party because theres nothing to do at parties for me and i cant do the social stuff. so im pretty stereotype.
i hate my background fridge noise that i currently hear constantly making a weird noise that fills my head, the sound makes me feel ill or stressed or something, i expect silence not a constant background whirring noise. especially in my lounge... my kitchen is open to my lounge so i can hear this fridge all the time when im in my lounge.
The quiet stereotypes (as opposed to archetype) are authentic, obviously, and I think you must be playing Devil's Advocate in saying this.
As we all know, it can be over or under sensitivities, although from my experience in life and on this forum, I'd say that the over sensitive type is more common (my own personal assumption, unbacked up by any authorititive text).
Here's what this site says:
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/sensory-differences/sensory-differences/all-audiences
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism/signs/adults/
Peter said:that is one of the two major things all autistic people share
Here is a link to Psychiatry UK says re the 4 qualities that are used for diagnosis:
https://psychiatry-uk.com/autistic-spectrum-condition/
So:
Social interaction and social communication
Repetitive and restricted range of behaviour
Intense interests
Over- or under-sensitivities to sensory stimuli
Research has led to these features being brought together into the two domains of :
People with autism lie on the intersection of these two dimensions, meaning that they have to show sufficient features in both groups of symptoms in order to fulfil the diagnostic criteria for ASD.
It is worth noting that everyone is somewhere on the continuum, some having more autistic traits than others, but it is the degree and pattern of impairment that leads to the identification of a ‘disorder’, as it is defined according to the diagnostic manuals.
We really just should respect one another and accommodate one another as best we can.
However, as others here have noted, we would probably just avoid loud people like yourself.
I was always absolutely battered on Booze when I used to go to gigs. I've not been to a gig since I quit drinking. It's going to be massive shock for me when I do. I expect I'll be quite anxious.