Published on 12, July, 2020
Over the course of the last two years, I was able to form some friendships through Twitter. Through reaching out to autistic people, I was able to create bonds like I had never had before.
I am an autistic male and I did predominantly reach out to autistic women/femme people. The problem was I did this too much. Unbeknownst to me I was coming on too strong and trying to reach out to too many people.
Last month, some screenshots of conversations were shared publicly. Conversations I'd had with other people. It became a huge Twitter storm for a few days and I lost my entire support network.
I own what I did. Without wanting to use my autism as an excuse, through misreading things the conversations became inappropriate (sexual in nature) and I realise that it was just not appropriate to speak to or about women in that way, regardless of intent.
I did a statement but ultimately I knew I wasn't going to make amends so I came off all social media and basically disappeared. I knew I just needed to work on myself. I have an autistic therapist which is helpful and I have three professional contacts I speak to but very occasionally (once a week if that).
There are some silver linings. My social media usage was incredibly unhealthy anyway - refreshing Twitter basically all day and checking my follow list to see if anyone had blocked me was just wrong. I was beginning to enjoy engaging in the autistic community on Twitter a lot less even before this happened.
I know now to be more of an open book with friends (if I'm ever able to make any). Setting out boundaries, parameters, expectations etc from the off and creating a safe environment for both of us. I used to find friendships stressful because I'd have this small network of people I consider friends and then I'd still be talking to 30 other people on social media. My energy is spread really thinly, it becomes overwhelming and too much for me. I'd want a much smaller, tighter group.
I put pressure on myself to hold friendships together and I was never 100% honest with people as to how I felt about that. Part of creating a safe environment is so both of us can speak to each other without the fear of upsetting the other person, especially if one of us is unhappy with something.
There's other things about the nature of conversations I have. I just need to be careful about what I say in private with anyone.
I know I need to win back trust, but it'll take time. I also need to trust other people too, because I don't want to feel like every little thing I do and say is going to be blasted online.
So what am I doing now?
There's still an overwhelming fear of being doxxed, so I changed my phone number. I'm taking it on the chin - I've had my punishment and I'm facing the consequences so I could probably punish myself a bit less.
It has been difficult to see a future. I wanted to channel my experience into something positive, like a guide for Autistic adults. Maybe something like "online etiquette for autistic adults" and "understanding boundaries for autistic men". I don't want this kind of situation to happen to anyone again so I'd want to be part of the solution.
I really do think that something like "understanding boundaries for autistic men" would be really useful. For me, there's a guy at university who is autistic and constantly crosses boundaries. We were forgiving and tried to explain what he was doing wrong to him and give him the benefit of the doubt etc but then it turned into something a lot more dark. To not go into a lot of detail, he believed that he was owed attention by people in his life and decided to physically threaten my friend and make her feel unsafe when she refused. That was when all sympathy for him went out of the window.
From what we can tell, he doesn't understand boundaries for any kind of relationship in his life. Friends, lecturers, etc...
I can’t honestly say much about your specific situation. These situations are context dependent and often turn on details and minutia.
however what if his behaviour is him setting boundaries. Let me put on my devils advocate hat.
how would you feel if your best friend started screening your calls? Not just for a day or two but weeks. Not answering messages. Making worry if you had offended them or if something terrible had happened to them. Wouldn’t you feel justified setting boundaries with a friend about going radio silent for that long?
now suppose your best friend didn’t think of you as a friend at all. To them you were merely acquaintances.
it’s not that rare. If you are autistic and very socially isolated the person you think of as your best friend may barely know you exist.
so have you and your friend told this guy very bluntly ‘we are not friends, do not treat me with familiarity because to me you are just an acquaintance.’
mayBe that will make you look like a jerk but if you go making complaints about him before making that clear with bluntness and directness I think you really are the jerk.
Peter, I accept that you were playing Devil's Advocate with boopBrownie, but if the guy's behaviour was his idea of setting boundaries, then I think there is a major problem if he thinks physically threatening people is an effective way of doing that.
Manipulation implies there is a conscious effort to exert control just look at the dictionary definition. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/manipulative
more generally the issue of reasonableness comes into play. if I wake up in the middle of the night to find someone attempting to crowbar open my front door and I say to them ‘hey if you try to break in Rob my stuff I’m going to punch you in the face’ would it be reasonable for them to accuse me of being manipulative by threatening to hit them.
no because that would be an entirely reasonable course of action. the term manipulative doesn’t apply to actions done intending to elicit a response if those actions are reasonable.
so the question is if someone is having mental health issues, even to the point of feeling suicidal, and is feeling increasingly socially isolated, is it reasonable for them to turn around to their friends and say hey ‘I’m feeling like I have really bad mental health issues and I’m starting to have suicidal thoughts’
I would say that that should be considered reasonable in general. it’s usually in the interest of mental health that people should feel comfortable approaching best friends about their mental health issues because they are far more likely to do so than they are a professional. and also the support of their friends is far more likely to help them than a professional in my personal opinion.
so I don’t think it can be fair to say that telling your friends that you are so lonely you are feeling suicidal is unreasonable. And if that’s not unreasonable I don’t see how it can be manipulative.
now there is an additional question which is when someone chooses not to be your friend anymore is it reasonable to continue making these sorts of approaches to them and that is an entirely separate question.
boopBrownie said:Not intending to be manipulative doesn't mean that you aren't,
No I’m pretty sure that it does. in fact I think it’s in the dictionary definition.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/manipulative
“A manipulative person tries to control people to theiradvantage“
The implication is that it is a conscious effort to Exert control.
There is a big difference between "not being the most fun person to be around" and doing what he did. I'm not arguing this with you anymore.
Threatening to kill yourself is the ultimate abuse and controlling tactic towards people. What he did was wrong and hurt my friend and her mental health. He then physically threatened her.
Not intending to be manipulative doesn't mean that you aren't, and my friend shouldn't bare the weight of his mental health issues after treating her like that.
no one in the history of suicidal ideation ever has thought 'if only I got a therapist I'd be ok and able to go on with life even if all my friends turn their backs on me.' Most extremely depressed people go into therapy as a last resort expecting very little of it. Often because they are pressured into it by friends and family concerned about self destructive behaviours.
The reality of therapy, (as I believe most therapists would tell you) is that treating deep persistent depression is not just about pills and positive mental attitude. The support networks people have, their family and friends, is hugely important too. I would go further I would say it's often more important than the therapy. Obviously a good support network & good therapy is the ideal for depressed people but I believe you will often get better results with a good support network and little to no therapy than you will with total social isolation and intensive therapy.
Regardless of whether his expectations of you or your friend are reasonable or not I don't think you can deny the likelihood that his recovery from depression is dependant on you or someone like you stepping in to be his friend in difficult times when he might not be the most fun person to be around.
It's a threat. If you feel that bad, you seek assistance, you don't basically tell someone who has every right to leave a friendship "if you leave me, I'll kill myself and it'll be your fault and you'll feel guilty forever". Because that's what that means. It's coercive and controlling behaviour and it is wrong. Just because you need help doesn't make it ok.
Even if it's true, yes. It's incredibly manipulative.
Even if it's the truth? See the phrase emotional blackmail implies it's said for effect rather than because it's the way a person actually feels. I'm not saying removing yourself from the situation isn't the right thing, at least sometimes, in that situation. But I don't think the term emotional blackmail is quite right either? Unless you've reason to believe he wasn't genuinely feeling suicidal?
Threatening to kill yourself if someone stops being your friend is emotional blackmail and abuse. My friend did the absolutely right thing in taking herself out of that toxic situation. It was affecting her mental health.
To be honest the mob was that strong I imagine they'll start a riot if I as much as showed my face again, even accidentally.
I have been kicked out (in a way) from communities that I was a part of and benefited from.
You raise an interesting point though.
That's fair. And I suppose people get to make their own choices about what company they keep. After all it's not as if you were banned from twitter. People are just giving you the cold shoulder. But if this was an IRL situation they'd probably be trying to get you kicked out of something, a bar, a club, a local event. There is nothing stoping you making a new twitter account and making some new friends there. But when people start trying to get you kicked out / banned from things it limits your opportunity to make new friends and rebuild your social life.
So yeah I stand by what I said, autism can be a valid excuse and often should be used as an excuse.
There's rarely any nuance online, particularly when it came to this. I was immediately a 'nonce' and no one was going to hear anything to the contrary.
I should have been better at reading things though. Like I think I said before, this was far from the first strike. It was a mistake I repeatedly made.
I like to remind people that there’s nothing wrong with having an excuse if it’s a valid excuse. That’s what excuses are for they absolve those who have them of culpability/responsibility.
no one has a problem with it when people with physical disabilities use a physical disability as an excuse. if a blind man taps your ankle with his white stick you don’t say ‘what are you doing mate’ he very obviously has an excuse. If a deaf person can’t tell what you’re saying when you’re asking them to move out of the way you don’t blame them or call them stupid they have an excuse.
only when it relates to developmental disabilities like autism do we suddenly develop guilt complexes over using it as an excuse.
It does frustrate me the more I think about what happened (as I mentioned in the OP). I've been portrayed as an absolute monster to the point I believe that proportionally I'm more hated than Hitler, but I didn't go out of my way to do any of that. I know we went through the "using autism as an excuse" thing before but I know that it's frowned upon.
I understand myself and why it happened a bit more now though.
It's not just that. Our enthusiasm can freak people out too. How many autistic women are obsessed with true crime shows? Turns out stilling down next to someone and starting a conversation about serial killers can be seen as 'creepy' or 'threatening.' An autistic person will literally follow some one into the toilet to continue an interesting conversation (I more or less used to do this when I was younger) but what if they're going to the toilet because the conversation is freaking them out and they want to get away?
A neurotypical who is angry and having an argument might moderate their tone of voice to be less ... shouty, where as an autistic person might not. It doesn't mean the autistic person is any more likely to become violent. There is just less self control / self awareness when it comes to things like tone of voice. etc
🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:when someone autistic turns into a bear, don't frikkin' poke the bear, leave the bear alone, "I'll be over there if you want me" calmly grab your stuff and go away for a few mins, check back in later after we have had the safety to express the fustration outwards.
You have no idea how much I need this to be a PSA on the TV. Like the Stroke awareness or NSPCC ads. Because despite many a "violent" and "scary" meltdown I've never physically hurt anyone.(I'm going to add for clarity this is the only point I am adding to in this thread, I'm not fully aware of the other (newer) things going on in this thread as I haven't had the time to read the whole thing from the top to last post again. And I'd just like to remind for caution that being autistic is a reason some things happen, but it's not an excuse, if vigilant you can learn to catch most behaviour before it negatively effects others. So it's important to take back control and responsibility for yourself whenever possible.)
It's rare I know, but I'll agree with Peter, on this specific point:
Peter said:it is very possible for someone to feel threatened by something that is not intended as a threat. Especially when the person involved is autistic. One should be very cautious of assuming that everyone who says an autistic person threatened them was actually threatened. because of how bad neurotypicals are at Reading autistic people
it is very possible for someone to feel threatened by something that is not intended as a threat. Especially when the person involved is autistic.
One should be very cautious of assuming that everyone who says an autistic person threatened them was actually threatened. because of how bad neurotypicals are at Reading autistic people
Most of us (afaik, this is certainly true to myself, and I've been told it's a common feeling) even when we "lose control of the steering wheel" in a meltdown we really don't want to hurt the people around us, we feel like a monster enough as it is. If there is any steering to be had I've often tried my hardest to redirect the physical aggression onto an object, or even myself. At the height of my own manic depression my meltdowns were very clearly defined by smashed crockery and self harming. I think knowing what I know now I'd have forewarned people to just stand back or leave the room, or let me leave the room and don't follow me when the major rumbles start because at that point it's 0-60 pretty fast.But and believe it or not this is saying it as nice as possible most neurotypicals I've encountered are pretty stupid when it comes to autistic people and meltdowns, they have to follow you and poke "what's wrong?" in either genuine or feigned sympathy when they should remove themselves form the "line of fire" and just leave you alone. But they don't they won't leave you alone to get it out of your system in peace then they turn around and self victimise saying "you are so aggressive how could YOU do that to ME?" And they have 0 pattern recognition they wil repeat this painful mistake again and again ad nauseum, they have to be told how to handle a meltdown because they aren't smart enough to figure out on their own when someone autistic turns into a bear, don't frikkin' poke the bear, leave the bear alone, "I'll be over there if you want me" calmly grab your stuff and go away for a few mins, check back in later after we have had the safety to express the fustration outwards. That has sadly been my experience anyway. And I do believe it matches what Peter is saying.
While she has clarified that this is probably not the case here it is very possible for someone to feel threatened by something that is not intended as a threat. Especially when the person involved is autistic.
People forget that depression, especially depression so severe as to make people suicidal, is a mental health condition in and of its self. It can cause odd, even anti social, behaviour.
ironically because of this instead of support, which is what people need in these moments of crisis, they are often blamed and ostracised.