Rule 4 - Be Nice

So another thread relating to trans rights has been locked under Rule 4 ‘Be Nice’ , but shouldn’t hatred directed at trans people be actually deleted? The thread was going really well with lots of trans, gender fluid and queer people supporting each other, but as usual the cis hets dive in to invalidate us. The mod response is not to target the prejudice but to lock the entire thread! This is wrong. Can we trans and queer and pride people on the spectrum not have a safe space here? I know the mods have a policy of non-deletion but this is wrong, were racist comments being made I’m sure they’d pounce on that pdq, but hate against trans people is unchallenged and left to stand. Apalling of you NAS!

  • In other words, widespread 'permission' is given by many progressive cis-het people for that or an equivalent term to be used to refer to the unconsiously ingested prejudice/entitlement that even the most enlightened have recurring blind-spots (sometimes caught in the moment of articulating them) about. Used pegoritivley, it is a short hand for 'the people who will remaiin comparatively advantaged for the foreseeable' - so basically that's OK. It isn't punching down in any way really. So actually... it's fine. Or should be. For those of us who can't take it, maybe we should ask why.

  • Well i'm none of those things.  I would say that the position is extremely Libertarian.  And of course there are Libertarians on the Left as well as the Right.

  • Well put. We are heading into the territory of “Privilege” here now - white privilege, straight privilege, the privilege of birth etc (all or not).

  • My prejudice, if that is what it is, comes from a place of persecution, the straight white mainstream absolutely don’t experience this, and I did not mention you at all, nor assert a personal axe grinding. 

  • Actually, that's a point - I'm a 'cis-het' (more or less) and also have no axe to grind - the opposite. But I took the phrase as a short-hand for 'cis-het people - most often men - who feel the need to defend the majority as though it were under threat'. But maybe there's more precise way of putting that - the harmfully prejudiced or something. Racism would fall within that term too. But then I worry that the specific minority being spoken of by CF is getting side-lined. The intent was clear in their post even if the precise phrasing was not. 

    To be honest, I do hear many podcasters and the like catching themselves in a moment of self-awareness and saying 'and of course. as a straight white male, I'm the voice that most needs to be heard on this topic'. It's done with self-deprecating irony of course. And I should probably echo that now, and step back from this discussion to let testimony of the lived experience have room to breathe. 

  • It is counter to the spirit of my first sentence.  Don't worry if you don't understand. This is a minefield and incredibly complex.

  • I’ve generally read “free speech absolutism” as short hand for the alt right, Trump obsessed, Q-Anon vitriol directed at everyone who non-conforms to their religion based stereotypes, are you going to disprove me?

  • but as usual the cis hets dive in to invalidate us

    By lumping a large group of people together, who cannot help being what they are, and giving them all negative traits, you are committing a similar level of prejudicial thinking as those you decry. "Do as you would be done by" is a good maxim. I'm speaking as the parent of a non-binary child, whom I love greatly. I have no anti-trans axe to grind.

  • "free speech absolutism" - I'm being a bit thick as per, but what does that mean? It feels counter to the spirit of your first sentence, but I'm likely misreading what it's intended to convey.

  • Racism was allowed on here for a while also.

    I think i tend towards free speech absolutism as this will protect the rights of the vulnerable to speak and help us in the long run.

  • You raise a good point, hopefully the mods will give it some thought. Their task is an unenviable one, but the only *temporary* locking of a thread (to allow for deletions of any posts denying minorities their identity) would be preferable to permanent lockdown. It's a shame we're not better at self-policing sometimes. The ideal forum would be like the planet Traken - no need for Mods there I'd say!

    DOCTOR: Yes, that's an interesting planetary system.
    ADRIC: Traken, isn't it?
    DOCTOR: Eh? You're beginning to get the hang of this console. Yes, Traken. (reads) Traken Union, famous for its universal harmony. A whole empire held together by
    ADRIC: By?
    DOCTOR: Well, by people just being terribly nice to each other.
    ADRIC: Well, that makes a change.
    DOCTOR: Yes. I don't think I've actually been there

    Meanwhile, on planet Earth, I think the trans community on here could do with feeling it's more of a safe-space. The Mods are I'm sure doing their imperfect (because human) best but a bit of fine-tuning on that one does seem appropriate.