Rule 4 - Be Nice

I mean let me tell you as a guy who grew up in a rough neighbourhood there is nothing special about knowing the people around you can and might try to kick you in the head. The only difference is for you is that you’d asume they did it because of your gender identity and my first guess would be they did it for my wallet.

this supposed safety privalidge many people claim cis white men have, I’m sorry but it doesn’t exist, not in my experience of being mugged, threatened with guns, threatened in general, shouted at out of car windows, generally jeered at by drunk people etc.

Peter said:

The solution is not to minimise or brush over our differences. It’s to ram those differences down peoples throats till they’re forced to acknowledge them. That’s largely how I am starting to think about promoting autistic rights at least.

Fair enough, but my point is still that those differences don't make us less human. But as you know (from an autistic stand point) we still get treated as such regardless. Good luck to you in that tho, this is the best week for it apparently.

I disagree. Peoples opinions should not rest on their reputations but the strength of their arguments. An expert who offers a weak argument is less worth listening to than a nobody with a strong argument. And one of the reasons we argue is to change peoples minds and you will not get people to listen to your position unless you listen to there’s.

If you want to change hearts and minds then you want the so called TERFs coming in here arguing with you, because it’s the only way you’ll ever change their minds, by hearing them out and trying to talk them round.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

That's the problem Peter, there are people who would end our lives if they could because they don't think we belong as part of humanity

I’m well aware of that, because to some degree it’s true of how some people think of autistic people. But I’m saying the emphasis is wrong. The solution is not to minimise or brush over our differences. It’s to ram those differences down peoples throats till they’re forced to acknowledge them. That’s largely how I am starting to think about promoting autistic rights at least.

Sure, some cis gendered people might have worthwhile views on trans people. For example, a doctor or academic who has spent their career treating or studying trans people might have a useful contribution to make, although it probably isn't as worthwhile as the experience of an actual trans person. It's like someone who once watched Rain Man coming into a discussion about autism and demanding that their opinions on the political issue of whether autism exists are every bit as valuable as those of the autistic people trying to have a conversation about their own lives, then that person throwing a tantrum when the autistic people suggest their views might not be particularly well informed.

....indeed - that would be a good one for the "fact of the day" thread.

It is a genetic fact that there is more diversity within Africa, than there is anywhere outside it. An Irishman and a Japanese are likely to be more closely genetically related, than a Nigerian and a Somali.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

There's no greater use of privilege than the defence of those that do not have it.

So true!

The topic of privilege reminds me of a paraphrasing: " With great power comes great responsibility, or abuse."
There's no greater use of privilege than the defence of those that do not have it. You're alright Shard' you've never once stepped on my toes, and there's no harm in discussing things adjacent to or "outside your lane" when done in good faith.

In lieu of having that hug reaction there's whisperings about, here's the hug.

This is such a privileged post. I know that almost every stranger on the street has power over me because if they decide to kick the *** out of me there's literally nothing I can do to stop it.

I couldn't care less what people think of me as long as they keep it to themselves. Indifference would be bliss.

You haven't done any military service yourself, I'd be willing to bet...

Peter said:

Can I just say at this point how much I truly hate that terminology. Othered, Othering. It suggests to me that there is some sort of virtue or purity in asserting that we are all fundamentally the same in one big amorphous blob of humanity.

You may not like it but when certain groups of people are treated as inferior or subhuman, othering is exactly what is happening. That's the problem Peter, there are people who would end our lives if they could because they don't think we belong as part of humanity - at all.
I'm going to phrase this next bit precisely as possible (and with the "royal" "you") so as not to risk a baseless accusation as I would hope this isn't the case, but if that fact upsets you less than a word being used then it's telling.

"It seems that a small group of very strident people think they have special rights and must be treated with the utmost respect whilst they reserve the right to pillory anyone else who does not fit their fantastic world view. "

Doesn't it just.

Caelus said:

ahh so it was made by a german sexologist/sociologist... it all makes sense now... yeah that just makes me want to have that word banned even more lol

Fortunately ~ etymological and sociological wisdom has so much more credibility than gender, sexual and racial discrimination; in freer more harmonised societies at least.

couldnt they have accepted the persons judgement then disagreed with it rather than killing themselves? 
or plain ignored it, water off a ducks back as they used to say?

i accepted peoples judgement that i was weak and a weirdo, i still use alot of judgement to this day and consider myself the weakest most pathetic of my age group... i then use this judgement to throw back in peoples faces when i outperform everyone and state that i am the marker of the very bottom and no one should be beneath me... you see i end up accepting and using the worlds judgements against itself. so judgements never bothered me but provided some fun payback.

the bigger thing that bothered me was exclusionism and feeling theres no place for you in this world. that is more likely what they feel when they commit suicide if we are to analyse it and try and find constructive ways to remedy and fix that. but ofcourse no one ever likes or thinks im sincere on that, people these days fail to realise that resilience is a path forward and in resilience you have to be firey have attitude and not care whos feet you stand on, you have to be tough and a fighter, that is one path around it. the world is hard, you have to be harder, the hardest thing cuts through the one that isnt as hard, be harder than the world around you and you wont be cut, the world will be cut by you.

Hi. I agree with your post almost in full. But i would like to stress how important i think individual actions in the world can be.  Especially the written word. It can be immensely powerful.

AuTriker said:

Because those people's opinion may not directly affect you, but it may directly affect someone else, so if you can help them to question their opinion that could help others.

The beginning of reducing abuse is increasing understanding.

I would say generally not. Only the opinions of people who have power over you have the power to effect you. And that is generally going to be business owners, government officials etc, people subject to non discrimination laws, or it's going to be people who have emotional power over you because of personal connection, family, lovers, etc.

And that brings me to my second point. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. This is a profound truth I once heard preacher say. If your definition of reducing abuse is bullying people into silence all you get is more indifference. What's better the family that argues because they don't see eye to eye or the family that cuts off people they can't see eye to eye with? When you bully people into silence their views don't change, they just stop giving a dam about the people bullying them. And then when a bigger bully come along and decides to step on you they just laugh and cheer.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

You mean "normal"  because god forbid you should experience being othered twice over like we are, like people like you make make us othered twice over.

Can I just say at this point how much I truly hate that terminology. Othered, Othering. It suggests to me that there is some sort of virtue or purity in asserting that we are all fundamentally the same in one big amorphous blob of humanity. That our similarities are more important than our differences which are to be swept under the rug. For the record I'm well aware I'm an autistic weirdo. I embrace my weirdness. I embrace my difference I don't need people to pretend I'm not, I need them to stop being afraid of what is different and weird, to stop trying to insist on normality.

If you look at the world that way normal is really the insult. Normal is tantamount to boring. Beige and cardboard is normal. We need to learn to value people who are different without minimising their difference ... even 'normies.'

Caelus said:

but that would mean accepting peoples intolerance, grumpiness or negativity as that is who they are too right?

Yes it would and I do accept those things. There's no point not accepting them because they will always be there. It's a part of life. As I said, I go with the flow. The world is changing, acceptance of people's genders and sexuality is growing all the time and it will continue to do so. And so it should in my opinion. Many, many people commit suicide each year because they're shamed for being themselves. That is wrong. And it must change. It will change. In my work I've seen young people as young as 12 in the hospital mortuary who decided that death was the only way out, just because people judged them. Very wrong indeed and if everyone could witness that person empty and lifeless I think perhaps they wouldn't judge quite as much as they do. Words hurt, they burn deep.

However I respect your opinion and I will not clash with you or anyone else. These are my thoughts on the matter.

Peace.