Rule 4 - Be Nice

HP35 said:

The existence of trans people is not political.

I mean almost every issue is political. The diagnosis of autism and what qualifies as a disability is definitely political. We just had a thread about petitioning the government over this a few weeks ago. There is no rule that says we can't get political here.

HP35 said:

If it's not something relevant to you, it's perfectly acceptable for you to not open threads that have "trans" in the title.

That sounds like you're subtly implying cis gendered people aren't allowed opinions on trans issues, or to express those opinions. This is not so.

HP35 said:

No one will be offended if you don't contribute to an issue you don't know anything about.

It's important to assert that you don't have to be trans to have knowledge or a worth while opinion or contribution to make on such matters.

Peter said:

unless it effects you directly why should you care?

I am reminded of the poem "First they came". Because if many people have a bad opinion about autists or about trans people then abuse is more likely. If we as autists want people to understand and accept us, then we should be understanding of other people too, or we are just hypocrites.

Because those people's opinion may not directly affect you, but it may directly affect someone else, so if you can help them to question their opinion that could help others.

The beginning of reducing abuse is increasing understanding. An individual may not be able to change society, apart from a few exceptional people, but most of us do not have such a platform. But we can be part of change for the better, first by increasing our own understanding, then by sharing that with others. 

My own understanding of trans people is woefully inadequate, made harder for me by my own weak identification of gender due to my own autism. I struggle to understand why anyone would care enough about their gender to put themselves through all that. But clearly they do care deeply or they wouldn't. 

Peter said:

if someone’s opinion leads to your whole community rejecting you

Which has been the experience of some trans people, and to them it probably doesn't feel like there is such a big gap between that and an intellectual discussion on a forum. Because this is one of their communities and some of the opinions expressed are rejecting of them. Or can feel rejecting even if they are actually not, because they have experienced rejection so are more sensitive of it, and also people on the spectrum can be rejection sensitive to start with.

Thank you for this Clare MOD - I appreciate the informative.

Kind regards

Hi online community users,

Thankyou for the points you have raised in relation to this post. 

Sometimes the moderation team may take action that you do not agree with. In some cases we are carrying out investigations on posts that you are not able to see or complaints have been made. We appreciate your patience with this matter. 

If you do have any concerns about the moderation of the online community, particularly if you feel our rule not allowing hate speech has been broken,  please do contact us by email at communitymanager@nas.org.uk 

Kind regards,

Clare Mod

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Ok maybe that’s not the best example. It would be interesting here to talk about the tension between people who see their racial identity as black vs people who would describe themselves as say Nigerian or Ugandan etc. but probably not helpful to this discussion.

my point is anyone can think what they like about your identity but that’s just an opinion and unless you believe that opinion is true, or unless it effects you directly why should you care?

if people tell you not to step on the cracks in the pavement lest you break your mothers back would you care? Yes I suppose if someone’s opinion leads to your whole community rejecting you that might be different. But there is a big gap between that and an intellectual discussion on a forum.

You didn't make ME feel very welcome here, two years ago did you?

Now you are back from your two year sabbatical, I hope you really did learn not to express open hatred for someone's point of view, and try to have them excluded, as your post would suggest you have learned.

You never expressed any remorse, or offered an apology, in the two years since that happened so who knows?

It seems that a small group of very strident people think they have special rights and must be treated with the utmost respect whilst they reserve the right to pillory anyone else who does not fit their fantastic world view. 

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

Also as a privately run site with rules* set out as terms for joining the quashing of hatespeech on this forum could never interfere with someone's right to expression as doing so doesn't prohibit or physically stop them from making their own sites to use as a platform to say whatever they like without moderation.
* And rules once set must be enforced and adhered to equally in order to be fair to all the users on this site.

For those that missed it here is Rule 7:
"

• This is a hate-free zone for autistic people, their families and friends, and professionals working in the field. We do not permit sexism, homophobia, racism, anti-Semitism, religious intolerance, transphobia, disability hate speech, hate speech, obscenities or pornography to be posted or linked to here. "

Also the way some people on here can take two unrelated premices and just form whatever conclusion conveniently fits their bias world view is astounding.

Actually, Rule FIVE is the "be nice" rule...

Rule 4 is the one I'll be invoking next time some heterophobe libels or defames me or one of my kind. 

I am going to start using the report function myself, if this divisive and shrill rubbish continues, I have had enough now.

You "activists" are RUINING this forum for the regular folk, and people are apparently starting to leave in droves, as someone said recently; "this isn't good for my mental heath".

Mods, can we please have an "ignore poster button", if a more elegant alternative cannot be found?

I agree with some of your points, but not number 2. Even with black people - what about an albino black person? They probably suffer this kind of response a lot. Even some mixed race siblings can have such different skin tones people don't believe they have the same parents, which must be difficult for them. Also, I am happy for you that your own autistic identity is so secure or that you have not had people disbelieve it.

I'm glad you're going to be staying here

1. Being nice to people doesn't extend to not disagreeing with their views. Someone telling you they think you are wrong should not be taken as a personal attack.
2. If your gender identity is so fragile that people disagreeing with your thoughts or feelings on gender identity can invalidate it it's not much of an identity. If I went up to a black person and said 'I don't really think you are black,' they're not going to think or feel they are less black because of it. They would just think it absurd. I would expect trans people to take the same approach.
3. Just because someone doesn't agree with every iota of your philosophy of what it is to be trans or what trans rights is or respect for trans people looks like ... or for that mater if they just happen to think reasonable minds may differ on these topics and its ok to have debates about them ... it doesn't mean these people hate you or are oppressing you.
4. A safe space is a space where it's safe to have a frank exchange of ideas, motivated by a genuine desire for truth rather than malice towards others. If all you want to do is set up a division of 'us and them' and try and censor those you consider to be the them it is you who is preventing this from being a safe space for all.
5. It's possible for people to disagree with your particular views on trans issues and still be sympathetic towards trans peoples difficulties.

What? No, I just needed to do shopping and get some work done, I'm not perma leaving the forum or anything don't worry. I might have to go quiet a bit longer over Sunday Monday anyway as the other half wants to do a hobby day and then a big house clean. :)

I hope you stay as well Sam. Your lovely you would missed if you leave. Maybe just take a short break and then come back. Thanks again for your help with the bully x

Please stay? I think you just intend to hibernate, so hope to see you around again before too long. 

Oh no, I didn't take it that way, no worries, I just think that when feeling particularly exasperated some posts can seem like they carry a certain tone which somewhat distracts from the message they are really trying to get accross hence why I try to phrase my replies to people as concisely as possible. Mostly I was just thinking out loud so to speak. Anyway must dash I'm in danger of being physically pushed out the door sans shoes now haha! XD

I wasn't thinking of your post + constructive suggestions when I wrote that Sam.

Well I would hope it would be taken as a constructive suggestion because, it's not with vitriol that I observe the mods need more support with this forum, quite the opposite. I know from my own modding days that it's difficult to be eyes on everything all at once, and from what I can tell the active mod team here is a small group, and probably knackered trying to cover everything between them. That's why I think they need a bigger team to plug the gaps because the rules of this place are too frequently broken.
Anyway, it was nice stopping in again with a cuppa but I must be off again. For how long I don't know. Take care of yourselves everyone.

Love back at you ️

Agree. I haven't been here long but I would really miss chatting to you all if the forum closes. This is a special place I'd hate for it to be gone.