Anybody please post your feelings or opinions on having friends or making friends or on being alone.

LastHorizon said:

I think most of my communication with others is by the written word. Again, I am not sure how the analysis works out but I think it is perhaps somewhat because being autistic means our conversations tend to be trades of factual information. Our communication is often really only a list of facts.

It's the same with me. I prefer written communication. My brain seems to find it easier to process words if I can see them in written form. Even watching TV I have to keep the subtitles on all the time otherwise I can't process what is being said fast enough. Sometimes though even finding the words for written communication is too much.

LastHorizon said:

That brings me on to masking. I hadn't heard of the term until recently so I hadn't even really thought about how much time I spend doing it. I am doing it right now, writing this note, using my "normal" tone. What I really want to do though is nothing.

Masking is not good for you and leads to autistic burnout. A friendship built from masking is therefore unsustainable.

In my earlier post I mentioned the double empathy problem. That would suggest that friendships within the autistic community should be more sustainable and require less masking. It helps if the friendships are interest based. There is some basic advice on this website?

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/family-life-and-relationships/making-friends/autistic-adults 

LastHorizon said:

I don't actually like talking so I only do it when I think I have to. 

I do not like talking either. To me a conversation is only necessary if required as a means to exchange information.

The idea of talking purely for enjoyment is completely alien to me. Talking requires massive amounts of mental and physical effort so why would I do it for fun?

Finding it hard to keep friends is something I have known for years. It is hard enough for me to begin friendships never mind keep them but once I am in one I still don't know what to do. One of the main ways it has affected me is a general lack of warmth and love in my life and a series of short-term relationships with women which start out just fine but end within hours or days or weeks or maybe a few months before they end, usually with me feeling depressed and inadequate and it's a hard feeling to shake because I suppose if somebody has broken up with me then it because I was inadequate. There is no getting away from the fact they eventually decided whatever they wanted in life it wasn't me.

For me the two main things missing from my life are fun and romance. I don't have boys to hang around with and I don't have a girl to be with in a couple.

A part of it is wilful self-sabotage. I don't understand why but when I meet somebody who likes me and wants to get to know me I tend to be quite mean to them. I don't know how the analysis works out but I think the reason is driven by the fact I am so uncomfortable with not knowing how to start a friendship, or even if I should, it elicits so much doubt and misery and confusion in me that it's actually just less difficult and painful to be alone. I expect those in long term committed friendships feel the opposite way around and for them being alone is harder and more difficult and I suppose for anybody who finds it easy to form supportive friendships they are probably right, it is easier for them.

It is good you have found friends who appear to understand you and don't put pressure on you. I have had friends like those but it was a very long time ago in my life. I have literally made no friends in decades. Yes, I have had relationships not ones which lasted and no new long-term friendships of any kind.

Others have talked about they meet people online and I think most of my communication with others is by the written word. Again, I am not sure how the analysis works out but I think it is perhaps somewhat because being autistic means our conversations tend to be trades of factual information. Our communication is often really only a list of facts. This kind of communication doesn't need to take place in close proximity to others. We can just mail or text each other.

Sometimes those written friendships can seem quite deep. It can sometimes feel like I am there in the room with them. It's a strange sensation how the mind can close the distance between people. One might argue that sometimes it can feel even better than most face to face communication with all its difficulties especially those faced by those of us on the autism spectrum. I probably all of the symptoms to some extend: Difficulty with and dislike of eye contact, difficulty with body language (I tend to just sort imitate the other person. I technique called "mirroring" which I learned from a book about social skills), I don't use vocal intonation effectively or at all and tend to be monotonous. These are not things which help face to face communication but are things which help with written communication.

The trouble with all of that is I want contact with others to be there in front of me. I want them to be with me. I want others to like mad and talk to me. It would be great to meet somebody who wants to make me happy. It's hard though because I have no idea how to make others happy and I don't even know how to me happy for any period of time except when I doing literally nothing.

That brings me on to masking. I hadn't heard of the term until recently so I hadn't even really thought about how much time I spend doing it. I am doing it right now, writing this note, using my "normal" tone. What I really want to do though is nothing. If I fall out of work what I spend most of my time doing is nothing and if I had enough money I might mostly do nothing until the end of my life. So, the only way I can start to make friends is to basically try to act socially confident and normal. This usually works out very poorly and I can see almost everything I say land badly on most people who then very quickly withdraw from the conversation and from my company. Either that or I will quickly grow very tired of the conversation and withdraw myself. I don't actually like talking so I only do it when I think I have to. 

Typing about it is making me tired right now. I'd rather go back to being non-verbal for a while so I can relax before work. Thanks for the chat.
 

I got it difficult to keep friends throughout school. But as I started college it got easier found relating to other though interests give the opportunity to talk without what will I say thought do they like me thoughts and I am I bee appropriate conversations. I let me inner child out too much. I see a pattern for me doe when I start getting overstimulated and how it effects been around people. I masked so much of me life and started to do that around the time of college because people would ignore me for been me. Find people around my age a growing up with friends they matured quicker always ahead of me around that. Been friends with them when I started noticing it like they didn’t have time for me felt like l was  an embarrassment to them. Lately the friends I have don’t pressure me into meeting them or doing this like heading off for a few days and they are still around and I am grateful to have them. Just trying your best around people the more I use to think I am not doing enough for myself to have any those time are where I mostly had myself. It normal to be anxious around new people and getting to know someone every find bit of anxiety that goes with that. I mostly just message my friends every week or every second week and we meet up when we can talking face to face is tiring for me have no energy and feel overwhelmed by it but I try that’s all you can do. 

I don't have any friends IRL.  I have 'FB friends' and those I follow/are followed by on Twitter. Due to the 'Bullying related trauma' I will self sabotage things if people get too close to me. The more they get to know me the more they'll find reason to dislike me and reject me. So I reject them first. I go into avoidant mode. 

I really shouldn't accept being friends with people on FB given how I am . Indeed I very rarely ask to be 'friends'. 95% of the time it's the other way round. Nearly 90% are from the FB high IQ community.  They are far more likely to want to be a 'friend' with me than the  average FB user.

I know how to talk about what I wan to talk about to those who find it interesting… I’m just not able to find those people in the places I’m given access to anymore. I hate my life.

LastHorizon said:

I do like being alone and I may be better at accepting myself than NTs, again, perhaps having been forced into it by cruel experience.

LastHorizon said:

That experience is what drove me to creating this thread: I want friends and a rewarding professional life. In short, I want better rewards. Being at home with a pile of books provides limited pleasure. It is nothing like being in a loving, fun and intimately compatible relationship where you are both bringing to each other the stimulating experiences you want to have. Travelling the world with that partner and seeing its beauty together. Having dinner as a couple and partying with friends. Making money in a business and being able to afford goods and property.

So as much as I can convince myself I am happy by myself my peace always gives way to my realisation that I am also broke and bored and alone and my autistic mind has obsessed over this problem my whole life and has never provided me with a solution and I am currently doomed to live until the end of my days having never made an impression on the world and never had the experiences I long for because I don't know what to do about it. I don't even know how to start to make those things happen. The basic things of making friends and making money so I don't have to die poor, alone and unknown. 

It sounds like the NT world was left you with a dent to your self esteem, which is not uncommon for ND folks.

Thing is you can have all that. Autists can and have done, and will continure to do so. That isn't the same as saying it's easy, it just means it's not impossible. When you're on a linux OS and you have to network with in a load of folks running on Windows, sometimes you have to find a good work around to make it compatible sometimes. If the majority neurotype was austistic then all of those things like social expectations would be more easy for us by default design. But tbh I always found even to just stay sane in the NT world requires being a little creative with it.
You can see if there are any dating meet ups for other neurodiverse people in your area or online. I found mine through gaming, and although we don't game together anymore we do cohabitationally make one almost fully functional person haha, so we tag team and tap out when one gets too drained with the mundane and minutia of life.
Also if meeting up with people physically is too much then you might be suited to having online friends, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I hope you find that happiness whichever road you need to take to it anyway.

I like your approach to this and your techniques, it sounds like both work well. I'm glad of that.  

I have those same desires, but I feel like I no longer need/want them like I did, say a few years ago. If they happened to come my way and there was a good chance of success then I'd go for it but I'm no longer actively trying to make things happen, like going out and meeting people.

Sometimes I wish we were all the same - I'm told the world would be a boring place if we were. I think that's true, it would be easier for me though lol.

I like how you use and explain metaphors. That's something I've never been good at, using metaphors and explaining myself.

I think that's a crucial step. We are all different. Autism is a neurotype rather than a personality type so we are all different from each other just like any large group. 

For me meditation, noticing and controlling my own thoughts, has been by far the biggest defence against meltdowns, depression and anxiety. I try to get hold myself and my mind and point both in the direction I want to go, so if I feel myself getting angry or depressed I know I am going the wrong way with my thoughts. Practicing this has been very hard and sometimes, especially at first, I felt I had to use extraordinary effort for a very long time to take my mind off defeating miserable thoughts. Like physical exercise it can be like lifting a heavy weight when very weak at first but in time you can lift it more easily. Ever since learning how to do it I recommend meditation and getting hold of ones own thoughts to anybody I think will benefit from it.

I probably just have more social desires than you do. We may be different in that way. I can relax in a nightclub or bar more easily than I can relax at home. I have little bit of anxiety about the staff and customers not liking me because I am alone and strange but again, I need to grab hold of that and defeat that thought process and replace it with confidence and self assurance then I can sit down and relax having done my best to make a good impression on others and realised for there to be any hope for me I Must get over that anxiety and my lack of social skills and charisma because there is no other way to cross that bridge*

*Sorry that I keep using metaphor. I hope you don't mind that I don't always speak literally. As an autistic person I sometimes get angry when NTs resort to metaphor rather than saying what they mean. By "cross that bridge" I mean the task of getting from my current circumstances to those I wish to be part of my experience in order to have an enjoyable and more effective life than I do now. 

Maybe you can talk about what you want then? What if making friends was easy for you and was not fraught with anxiety? 

I'm not sure people are worth all the trouble to be honest. Are they worth stress, meltdowns, mental collapse (I get this)? All that just to have someone I call a friend? I attempted it a few times, the results were horrific and resulted in mental health problems and being detained under the mental health act - so now I don't worry about it. I've got myself, I'm happy and if I need social contact there's always sites like this. 

I am glad that many people like your comment. I agree that I have also found "just be yourself!" is very good advice. It has taken me a lifetime to understand that liking different things from NTs and not wanting to do the same things as them isn't a bad thing. It's OK to not want to socialise and to want to be alone with books and words and music and numbers. 

I reflected recently on a time when my work colleagues were organising a night out together and as usual they were avoiding including me in their plans and organising it between themselves so I couldn't hear what they were doing. It is an experience I am familiar with and it's one which hurts me a bit each time. 

The last time this happened I decided to rise above it and not take it personally or feel offended (much) and I went out alone and thankfully ended up having an experience I almost certainly would not have done if I had been given an invitation I had accepted from my work group. Not being a part of the main group, or any group, has advantages and sometime I reason to myself I am merely not part of any small group but rather a part of the largest group on earth. I have a relationship with all things, not just a few people I know from work. 

The flaw though is to just be myself doesn't bring me the things in life I need from the world in which I live. If I really did what I wanted to I would probably not leave the house except to buy provisions and would instead stay at home and read and listen to music for the rest of my life. 

The trouble with just being true to myself is that being true to myself doesn't bring me many of the things I long to experience, like travel and the benefits of wealth and love.

I do reflect on how empowering it is to enjoy time spent alone but again sometimes this power feels like a reconciliation with something inadequate. I probably wouldn't spend so much time alone if I was popular and was regularly invited to parties with groups of people whose company I liked. People who were talkative and friendly towards me. So I think I have needed to find ways to enjoy spending time spent alone by force of a lifetime facing absence of social opportunity.

It isn't that I am trying so much to put a cloud on a silver lining but that yes I can cheer myself up with positive thinking about my own condition and accept being who I am but the limits to that are what generates most of my sadness which surrounds the fact I cannot have the things in life I want because I am autistic and because this means I am very poor at making friends and very good and alienating people and pushing them away and putting them off me which places back in this situation where I am alone.

I met a girl recently and we hit it off. I haven't had so much chemistry and fun with a person probably ever. her friends took an instant disliking to me and kept pulling her away. I didn't take her contact details nor explain to her I would dearly like to see her again and spend more time with her. So that's what happens: Even when those few opportunities become something desirable and turn into love and affection and acceptance of who I am not only by me but by somebody else that experience has too short a span and in less than two hours it is over and I am by myself with very little hope of seeing that person again or of having that experience again with anybody else.

I do like being alone and I may be better at accepting myself than NTs, again, perhaps having been forced into it by cruel experience. How much I can accept myself and enjoy my time alone is so frequently darkened by how much I know just being myself doesn't bring friendship and care into my life and however much I enjoy being alone so much of the time I would enjoy being with somebody who cares for me so much more.

That experience is what drove me to creating this thread: I want friends and a rewarding professional life. In short, I want better rewards. Being at home with a pile of books provides limited pleasure. It is nothing like being in a loving, fun and intimately compatible relationship where you are both bringing to each other the stimulating experiences you want to have. Travelling the world with that partner and seeing its beauty together. Having dinner as a couple and partying with friends. Making money in a business and being able to afford goods and property.

So as much as I can convince myself I am happy by myself my peace always gives way to my realisation that I am also broke and bored and alone and my autistic mind has obsessed over this problem my whole life and has never provided me with a solution and I am currently doomed to live until the end of my days having never made an impression on the world and never had the experiences I long for because I don't know what to do about it. I don't even know how to start to make those things happen. The basic things of making friends and making money so I don't have to die poor, alone and unknown. 

Couldn't agree more. Great response 

Quality is more important than quantity.

LastHorizon said:

What do you think about it? You who is reading this message now. What do you think of making friends, especially with neurotypical people, or having fun, or being alone? What do you think when you look at other people who are friends? Do you experience envy, or sorrow, or loneliness? Do you have any answers or tips for those of us who do?

I think I have friends exactly because I am happy alone. I have never been the sort of person to get lonely or feel isolated. (Ostracised yes but that is a separate thing entirely.) I don't think it's that big of a secret that to NTs the more you want to be their friend it just comes off as desperate, and really if we are being honest real friendships are not forced and flow naturally anyway.
You need to be realy comfortable in your own skin as an ND person, if you don't treat yourself as being or having something secret "and thus shameful" thing about being yourself then others will less feel like they have the permission to treat you that way either.

There was a time I had no friends in my life but I just kept being me and made new ones, there are people in the world ND and NT that appreciate and are drawn to authenticity.

My tip is learn to be your own best friend first, then you are never really alone, everything else after that is just extra.
You can do this even if you are depressed. Just think of the most compassionate thing someone who loves you very much would say to you, and then say it to yourself.

I just cannot cope with the unpredictability of real-life friends. This has never been their fault. Being completely alone is the only way I can remain even slightly stable.

I've had very few friends. I was shy and a loner when young. The shyness became severe social anxiety when I went to Felsted and was subjected to severe verbal bullying. I'm quite, but not totally asocial. I've tried several times to be more social. All have been utter failures. Last time was before Covid. A small group at my local library. I didn't say a lot, and what I did say got very little response. The others were getting on fine with each other. The final straw was when the person running the group, he said he was a 'radical social worker', mocked me by saying I had my money on a string when I paid towards the refreshment I'd had. I'd paid the same as a woman a few minutes before me who hadn't been mocked.  I never went back. Didn't fancy being ignored and made to feel uncomfortable and unwanted a second time.

I had friends back in school/college but I pushed them all away because socialising felt so overwhelming to me but now I've isolated myself so much that I've become really lonely Feels like there is no winning with my brain - when I'm around people I feel stressed and want to be alone, but when I'm alone I often get lonely. 

LastHorizon said:

Cinema is something I do by myself because it's easier to disappear

Have you thought about possibly joining a cinema club? There's one in my city, and people meet up once or twice a week in order to go to the cinema together. You'd be able to "socialise" without any requirement to interact, and any social activities after the film (dinner, drinks etc.) would likely involve conversing about the film you had all watched - should you choose to join in. Just an idea...

Really awesome. At uni one of my friends tried to start a micro nation. It was a mick take but a lot of laughs.

I remember reading about the story of Sealand. That was really weird. 

LastHorizon said:

Although I would have liked to have seen her again

Try going back to the nightclub as often as you feel able, better on the same night of the week that you met. She might come looking for you too, and you really have nothing to lose (you've already accepted the letting go part) and possibly much to gain...

With regards to making friends, I've found that people really like talking about themselves and if you ask questions about them they will often provide most of the conversation. This comes fairly easily to me as people are my special interest, I'm fascinated by them and genuinely want to know how they work and why they think or feel the way they do.

Unfortunately it seems that I'm not great at showing people that I like them, I recently found out that people struggle to decipher how I feel about them, and I guess this puts off all but the most confident/determined. I have many transient friends - those who I speak to for hours on one occasion and will greet me pleasantly when I see them, but who don't make an effort to pursue a meaningful relationship - and only a few people who I feel are actually real friends. This failing of mine probably effects my chances of romantic relationships far more than I had previously appreciated, but it is what it is.

Good luck with it all!