Told I'm gullible, infantilised and gaslit.

I thought once a long time ago about trying to code an app for homeless people. Where people could give them money digitally into an account that will only let them spend it on certain things (food, housing etc). Like when they want to spend it they’d have to use the app and it would arange  for it to be click and collect at a store or something like that.

but I don’t have the clout to get a service like that off the ground.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

If the dole money could have made a deposit for a flat I guarantee it wouldn't have gone on alcohol.

But that’s the issue isn’t it. Given enough time dole money would have been enough for a deposit. Even if it took months saving it on the street to get to that point. It’s hard to forgo the booze or drugs etc that can make you feel good now to get a deposit etc later.

so many homeless people will come up asking for money saying they’re trying to save up for a room for the night. And they’re always claiming they’re just a few quid away which they almost never are. Even if they genuinely believe they are saving up for a room, when it becomes obvious they won’t have enough this night where does that money go? To their local off-licence or dealer. It’s hard to endure hardship now for relief later. Which is why so many turn to substance abuse.

Considering that you have experienced homelessness, I am not surprised you feel irked by the NT person who thinks you're gullible for giving your spare change to homeless people.

In the town where I live, there was a major problem with professional beggars... People who weren't genuinely homeless, but tried to give the impression that they were. As a result, people were encouraged to donate to a local charity that provides care packages for the homeless and other vulnerable people.

No need to be sorry for being a good person. You helped out another person who was in a bad place maybe one day that person will be in a better place again and happy. Small acts of kindness can go a long way. If I've got spare money I'll give to people less fortunate or buy them a coffee . . . I've been there after me folks died it's not pleasant and a few quid does help out.

Oddly I think they treat each other this way as well. But yes. 

Don’t apologise. Do the thing you believe to be right and ethical. Call others out on their callousness and lack of empathy. Anyone can fall or fail. Some are so afraid of being marginalised they redirect that fear into shaming others. 

The problem is really how NTs mature, through defence mechanisms which suppress internal desires and “transmute” it into something unrelated. It’s apparently a natural part of that “brain wiring“ to keep a tribal community in check. 

Absolutley. I am 35 and other adults, even ones younger than me, still treat me like a child. I just want to scream at them that I am a grown up and to treat me like one.

I also find people seem to think they can con me and pull the wool over my eyes, like they assume just because I am nice and kind that I must be either gullible or a doormat that will just never complain about anything. And then when I do stand up for myself they treat me like a troublemaker.

I always try and help homeless people if I can, like you I am shocked by the unsympathetic attitude of NTs who seem to act like all homeless people deserve it. I think especially these days when the cost of living is so tough, most people are one or two bits of bad luck away from being homeless. I was nearly homeless myself a couple of times so like you I have alot of empathy with them

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

I've made quite the recovery for someone who didn't think they'd live to see their mid 20's or 30's.

I was that guy too. Although I only ever did proper regular drinking for about three months, when I was 18 I crashed my bike quite hard into a lampost, which taught me a valuable life lesson, on top of a fair few episodes of making a complete *** of myself. Don't ever drink above the legal limit for driving even if you are not driving.. For social drinking where refusing to get "tiddly" might dampen the mood, a vital action as soon as I feel "thirsty" is to switch to tea or coffee... That seems to stop me getting ill or arrested... 

Yes tobacco because I wanted to and cannabis because I wanted to know if I could, or because I had certain types of work. You don't want your 200 hour inspection done on a C47 by someone who fired up a phatty on the way to work. (although some do...) 

Tobacco is hard and recidivism easy, eight years off it is my record, with a fair few shorter periods.

Cannabis easy, for as long as I think is long enough, or when the work ends. I'm genuinely trying to work out with my friends and family if it's an addiction or a useful medicine. It certainly dials the impulse control issue right back, lifts my mood, and makes me think more and act less. All of which are benefits. 

As for your "beggar" being a substance abuser, you aren't going to fix it or save him by not giving him any money, and making your gift conditional on him fitting your ideals seems wrong to me, so you either give 'em nothing, (my default because that's usually what I am carrying, and often also my net financial worth on the day, OR you give em enough for a ten quid deal, six pack of stella PLUS a meal and a packet of fags and maybe a bit for the day after.

The theory being that with a full belly and no pressing drug requirement, the poor beggar gets an actual brief HOLIDAY, and I've had some real good ideas in my "down time".

I'm going to be short of the money whatever they do with it, at least if I can give them respite from their immediate and urgent issues all at once, it stops 'em bothering people who don't like it, and my money definitely makes them briefly but genuinely "happier". But it was in the late nineties when I could last do anything like that... 

Yh it's heavily implied in my other posts but I used to drink a lot when I was homeless, mostly so I didn't feel the cold so much but also because it numbed the emotional pain of being in that situation. But once my situation improved I didn't need to drink like that anymore, so I just don't now, thankfully I was never chemically addicted to it or else I couldn't even have a small social drink at Xmas now. But alcohol abuse (the act) isn't necessarily the same as being an alcoholic (which is a condition).
Had an actual nicotine addiction in my mid 20s though but I quit that cold turkey as they call it.

I think what a lot of folk do is confuse cause with corrrelation.
In my case the drink was a result of being homeless, not the homelessness a result of being a drinker. If the dole money could have made a deposit for a flat I guarantee it wouldn't have gone on alcohol. Well thankfully I shut the door on that chapter or my life over 15 yrs ago now. I've made quite the recovery for someone who didn't think they'd live to see their mid 20's or 30's.

I mean this is true but it ignores the bayesian factor. There are a lot more people period living indoors than on our streets.

there are probably more substance abusers or as I prefer users living indoors than on our streets,  if the users addiction was alcohol then getting support is easy. Has any body here tried to break a dependent habit? I’m pretty certain it’s tough, more so if you’re living outside. 

Usually the former. If I see someone begging or they approach me I might say 'I don't give out money but there is that shop / takeaway there I'll happily buy you something.' At that point some graciously accept. Some say they've already eaten and graciously decline. Others get pushy. Insist they must have money. A few have the cheek to ask you to buy them booze or cigarettes.

I get it. food doesn't buy you a hotel room etc. But until there is a non transferable voucher I can hand out for rent I don't feel good handing out money when I know a large percentage of it will go on drugs / booze / tabaco.

Shouldn’t give money to homeless people,.  It’s wrong,. If you want to help, give to a charity that deals with homelessness.  

im sick of seing beggers begging whilst wearing £100 trainers.  

I say I only have my bank card, sorry. Or avoid all eye contact :-) it’s not nice being homeless. People are cheats and begging is a easy income

Food is better for them. 

She told me that she was pregnant. However, on reflection, she was looking Abortion money. 

Mind if I ask the practicalities of that? Do you say 'I'm going into such-and-such is there anything you'd like to eat/drink?' Or would you quickly hand them something pre-bought (sandwiches or chips or...?) taking a chance it's to their taste, they're not allergic etc.? 

Tbh I have mixed feeling about this. I like to buy them food when I can. I’ve done enough work with the homeless to know many even a majority of beggars are involved in some kind of substance abuse. And would spend money on that before food or shelter.

I can’t hand out shelter on the street but I can hand out food. So that’s my preference.

that’s my personal position I know others differ. But there is nothing naive about having compassion for the homeless. There are plenty of genuine rough sleepers about and even the ones who aren’t are often in insecure housing. couch serfung  etc.

The last homeless person I encountered was three weeks ago, walking through Belfast trying to find somewhere in the freezing cold, and I couldn't imagine having to stay out in in all night but there was someone huddled in against a doorway. I gave him a pound (the only small change I had on me) and made the most momentary of inadequate and clumsy conversation, but to just tear on past would have felt strange. And (selfishly) like pending bad karma. 

 I give what I can to when I can, my bother tells me I’m gullible for doing so, sadly he is the kind of person that reads the Sun!
Most people have a mortgage or rent to keep up with, many of them won’t have savings, I certainly don’t. 
these circumstances pretty much mean that many people are one month away from homelessness. 
If I don’t get paid this month I can’t pay for next month. 
Giving to homeless must be encouraged, if you can’t afford cash, then take them hot food or offer them dry clothes.
you should all remember that next month the person sitting in the  rain could be you. 

Hi Desmond. I would never want to invalidate someone's experience but I hope you don't mind me asking is there anything in particular what caused you to conclude the person in question was a panhandler in a dishonest sense of the word? Particularly that led you to be distrusting of their own money-management? I know people are individuals and not necessarily representative as a group, but I am interested in hearing about your particular experience with the individual in question regardless as I'm very sorry to hear you have been left with an experience that appears to have left you distrustful. And I hope it is not insensitive to ask if you enquire (or will in future enquire) as to food tolerances before you give homeless people food, as often no matter how grateful people are of another's kindness that generosity can be misguided, as if the homeless person has for example a dairy allergy, they may appreciate the sentiment of you buying them a cheese sandwich but will be unable to eat it as it would cause them potentially greater health issues in the long run. I realise it sounds trendy to a lot of people but I implore you to take it in the good faith it is meant if you give homeless people food to try and give them as close to allergen free, vegetarian food as possible to cover a wide variety of medical dietary restriction bases. I have found a humous and dairy free butter variety to be the best for example.