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we didnt have free movement in the EU... we was outside the EU free movement zone... and being part of the single market didnt afford us free movement. what the single market is, is to treat all of the EU as if it was one nation when it comes to trade.... this is in part why individual members of the EU cannot trade outside of it, the EU has to trade for them, as that is what the single market is, if we was to be part of the single market we would be giving up our ability to trad ewith anyone at all and giving our trade and fate in the hands of the EU, which is a very bad thing to do when outside of it because they dont care theyd take everything off us for free and bankrupt us... and that is why you dont want to be part of the single market if your not a member of the EU....and even if you are a member of the EU that still puts a knife to your nations throat... a very bad situation to be in.... why should we restrict our trade and make it so the EU has to trade outside for us and for the UK to not be a global trade force and instead the EU to be the face of UK trade in which they make our deals for us whether we like them or not? how is that good? ... thats bad.... thats why we wanted out of the single market... you have all been told lies about what the single market even is. this is what i was getting at with the other guy too, no one seems to understand what the EU even is or how it worked or what any of these terms they bring up even mean.... the single market is very very bad.... why should we want to give up our trade and have the EU make our trade for us and not allow ourselves to trade?

no one at all can be helped, in what way can anyone help anyone? "help" is only around to make the person helping feel good about themselves in which the person they help never truly gets any help or has any positive change anyway.

if you had more critical thinking and analysis skills youd see that, and much much more.

Caelus said:

here are multple they.
there is the marxist subversive controllers that are behind the riot mobs that claim they want all these social changes, but they dont, all they want is to destabilise the country and cause fragmentation and collapse most likely they are russian or chinese agents behind them.

the other they is the usefull idiots, the people that fall for all that without thinking and get mislead into all these violence that isnt necessary at all. they generally are good intent and want good but are mislead by the subversive marxist russian/chinese leaders that want to stoke them up to destroy the country so their motherland can get away with evil deeds on the world stage without the west being there to act as a world police.

You need to speak to someone right away There is no one here who can help you.

Just a little political reality for you.

2010
The election resulted in a large swing to the Conservative Party similar to that seen in 1979.  The Labour Party lost its 66-seat majority and ended up with 258 seats, bringing to an end to the short stay in office of Prime Minister, Gordon Brown.

2015 
The Labour Party, now led by Ed Miliband, incurred a net loss of another 26 seats to return just 232 MPs. This was its lowest seat tally since the 1987 General Election. 

2017
The Labour Party under the deeply unpopular Jeremy Corbyn managed to increase its share of the vote by only 1% against the most unpopular Prime Minister in modern times, Theresa May. It ended up picking up 20 extra seats, leaving it with with 262 MPs.

2019
Two years later, The Labour Party lost another 20 seats bringing its sitting MPs down to a record low of 202, its lowest number and proportion of seats since 1935. 

uff, just one question.

How is all this wokery and virtue signalling working out for you? 

What exactly does that actually mean ? Who is it that has you this way ? What do you actually think and feel yourself ?

The Labour Party has been out of power for over a decade and recently suffered its worst election defeat in its history.

Your point being ? 

The Labour Party has been out of power for over a decade and recently suffered its worst election defeat in its history. Apart from a coalition of hard-core trans activists, race-obsessed cosmopolitan avocado-munching hippies; and non-binary safe-space student snowflakes, how many real people with real life struggles does the Left actually represent anymore? Across the free world, Left-wing parties have been decimated politically. 

And the progress made in those years by conservatives, do you wish to name them ? Any of them ? Answers on a postage stamp please ! Do you not remember the austerity of Osbourne and IDS ? Have you forgotten about the disabled people in wheelchairs who had to storm parliament for the first time in history ? 

You have been exposed unless you have any come back of humanity ?

Hatred, bitterness and animosity?

Methinks thou shouldst look in the mirror at thine own good self.

It is pulling up the drawbridge that ses to be a whole lot more indicative of hatred, bitterness and animosity

Caelus said:

its not nonsense or opposite the truth, you just dont know how the EU works...

Is that right ? Go on then tell us ignorant people how it works then ? 

Caelus said:

ace the facts, the EU is nothing more than a giant ponzi scheme.

Welcome to the realities of Capitalism my friend. What are your alternatives ? I'd love to hear them ? 

Caelus said:

put it this way.... if your running a shop, do you think its best to get your goods you sell in your shop from asda, or from a actual bulk source that creates it? ... because by your logic youd buy your stock from asda and then wonder why no ones buying it to make you profit.... why would they buy it from you when they can buy it from where you got it without you having to make profit ontop of it?

Nothing here at all is logical. Why don't you expand in your thinking and tell us all what the hell you are talking about ? We don't want to hear anything you have fixed in your head regarding brexit or the nonsense you read about at the time. 

We want hard facts or evidence or, at least, something we can all agree on. you can't offer any of that can you ? You were wrong and you don't like being wrong. You never really gave any attention  to following through with any of the  bullshit claims made during the campaign did you ? You weren't capable of thinking for yourself  were you ? Now that the *** has hit the fan you will do anything but admit you were hoodwinked by a small number of people who don't have your interests at heart. Isn't that the case ? 

We're not friends. But point taken.

These empty words mean nothing to me, my friend.

Yes, basically.

The referendum was in 2016. It's now 2021. It's time to let go and move on. It's worse than those fanatics who stormed the American capital because they too couldn't accept the results of a democratic election. It's not healthy. For you. Or for society.

Scapegoating outsiders being one of the less noble andore dangerous aspects of human nature.

Divide and rule. 

When someone makes statements like these, Turtle, claiming they know your motivations, know how you feel, know what you think, or know what you want, it's a very clear form of covert verbal abuse. Like suggesting to someone they have a mental health condition because you don't agree with their world view.

If you are doing it intentionally, then it's a very sinister trait indeed.  As this is now a repeated behaviour you engage in, I won't be engaging with in any further discussions on this topic or others. 

I don't know what statements you are referring to. YOU started this topic or thread for what reason ? Was it for people to argue ? Was it for attention ? I could be wrong, but from what I gather it is about journalism and the media ? If so, I haven't found anything you have posted thus far about journalism or the media in any way enlightening, beneficial, new or progressive to human beings in general ? What is your intention or point ? That's how i work. How do you operate ?

Am I missing something ?

Copying and pasting from the Tory manifesto now?

And still not a single benefit named, just empty promises. 

Oh and some anti-immigrant dog-whistles thrown in. The 'housing and service needs' of this country are being ignored in favour of private capital. But then, scapegoating immigrants is just easier. And people fall for it.

ah.... so you think the tories invented austerity? ... youd give them that much credit? .... thats a insult and disgrace to better people..... wasnt it the romans that created austerity as a means of management? .... dont attribute something that better people created to the tories lol modern governments these days have no unique ideas and are all copying the foundation that rome made.

any that doesnt commit austerity, is incompetant... and this we say in gordon browns collapse where he left and bankrupt the country and said we have no money at all which then forced us by no choice at all to commit to austerity

Benefits of Brexit

The benefits of Brexit range from new regulatory freedoms, an independent trade policy and a stricter immigration system to protect the culture, and the indigenous workers.

The United Kingdom has more freedom to create our own trade deals and regulations. 

In emerging industries, such as genetically modified foods and genome technology, Britain can take a more innovative approach than the EU by diverging from the shackles of data protection and regulation of the internet.

Regaining sovereignty back from unelected officials in Brussels. The UK will exercise full control over its borders. Brexit will see the end of free movement and cut immigration into Britain, which has created difficulties in fulfilling housing and service needs. 

The referendum was in 2016. It's now 2021. It's time to let go and move on, Turtle. 

its not nonsense or opposite the truth, you just dont know how the EU works... which is why your a remainer... if you knew how it worked then youd probably agree it was wise to come out of it.

now if you havent got any other arguments than denial of truth theres no point in keep harping on. 

face the facts, the EU is nothing more than a giant ponzi scheme. and if you think we get cheaper goods when they have to go through a middle man before they get to us you dont know a thing about economics either lol

put it this way.... if your running a shop, do you think its best to get your goods you sell in your shop from asda, or from a actual bulk source that creates it? ... because by your logic youd buy your stock from asda and then wonder why no ones buying it to make you profit.... why would they buy it from you when they can buy it from where you got it without you having to make profit ontop of it?

I don't see the problem with attributing austerity to the Tories, unless you don't think it's fair to judge the Tories by their words and actions over the last 10+ years, as well as that of their voter base. 

Caelus said:

again we got products from all over the world but they had to go through the EU first, they acted as a middle man and did the deals for us... which in turn wasnt deals to be favourable for us but deals to be favourable for them making money off us by buying off the source and then selling to us for ramped up profit.... they didnt allow us to go to the source and buy direct for cheaper, it is illegal in the EU for members to do that, one of the conditions is any outside deal or trade the EU has to do it for you in which they act as middle man and want profit from it, alot of profit from it. which increases the prices of goods on our shelves.... but your fine with that, because your a middle class selfish pillock who probably voted tories all your life up until last election.

That's just nonsense and the complete opposite of the truth or reality and just more of your rantings based on nothing. If anything we got products cheaper being part of the biggest trading block in the world. You see, if you're  a member of the biggest trading block in the world with a population of over 400 million, countries will tend to want to do business with you on your terms. You have all the cards. Take it or leave it. What cards do we have now as a divided, insular, simple-minded,  Zena phobic and sad little nation run by a bunch of charlatans, compulsive liars and incompetent wasters ? The only friends we have now in the EU are other little insignificant imbeciles like Hungary and its far-right lunatic leader.  

It is actually more expensive for Australian, New Zealanders, South Africans etc etc citizens to buy products made in their own countries than it is to buy the same products in the EU so you are talking complete dribble. 

You should get used to that because everything will get more expensive for us after leaving the EU and living standards will drop. We will also be forced to drop many of our higher standards regarding food production and human rights in order to strike deals with lesser developed or evolved  countries. 

Once again, I gave you the opportunity to make your case based on anything coherent, logical, sensible, economically beneficial, understandable , moral or anything else that might progress us but you have absolutely nothing to offer on that front or anything else.