Published on 12, July, 2020
I’m sure you guys can relate to being fed up with life to the Nth degree. To some degree I want to vent but also I want to make a point hoping at least some people here will agree with me. But I need to start with some background about myself first.
I was diagnosed as an adult. Autism was something that only got picked up during my degree and didn’t get formally diagnosed till much later. Prior to that I’d been home schooled, getting my A levels in a community college. I won’t say autism hasn’t effected my career but it didn’t stop me achieving well academically and getting a job in my chosen career as a scientist.
The one area where autism effects me most in my life is my social life, at this stage it's almost laughable to call it a social life really. I’m actually pretty extroverted. I love spending time with interesting people talking about interesting things. Unfortunately that window of people on my wavelength is pretty narrow and getting less accessible as time goes on. My interests are generally juvenile and nerdy. Obscure video games and anime, weird science and … well things out of the ordinary.
I’m very widely read and my enthusiasm for what I find interesting can come off as arrogant (because I appear to be an authority on everything) or creepy (because I’m generally unable to tell when interest transitions into discomfort for the people I’m talking with unless they express it verbally). I don’t see the line between interesting and disturbing because, well for me it isn’t there to the same extent.
I’ve been banned twice from activity groups and once by a geek themed bar ostensibly for being a ‘weirdo’ and making people feel ‘uncomfortable.’ This is why I’m now taking legal action. I’m not going to elaborate on against who or the specifics of the situation. But I do want to talk about the protection the law affords autistic people and why no one ever seems to have fought for it before.
Because believe me I’ve been reading a lot of case law and I can’t find a case like mine anywhere. The equality act says discrimination arising from disability is illegal. You can not apply the same rule to everyone and say you are not discriminating if the rule penalises people for things that are caused by their disabilities. Not unless you can justify it as a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim.
So for example in a school you can’t expel an autistic student for being disruptive unless you can demonstrate you’ve really looked at every alternative.
In fact it's actually illegal to have rules that unfairly penalised the disabled. An example in employment would be the Bowerman v B&Q case where the tribunal ruled that defining ‘unintentional sexual harassment’ as ‘grose misconduct’ without a provision to take autism in to account was discrimination.
If you have an autistic person who is unintentionally causing upset, as far as I can understand the law, you can’t just ban them on the grounds that’s what you’d do to anyone else. You have to have a process to assess to what degree autism contributed to the issue and if the ban meets the legal tests for being a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim for which the supreme court has laid down a 4 part test.
This principle has been tested in education and in employment but the equality act says it also applies to goods and services. If you ban an autistic person from a venue, event or other activity offered as a service to the public the same principal should apply.
As an autistic person I rely on fairly neich special interest groups to help me make friends and connect with people on my wavelength. They are basically my social lifeline. I suspect many autistic adults who like me are more or less independent but fairly isolated are similarly reliant on activity groups like that.
So why is it that I’m the first, as far as I can tell, to take a stand on this issue?
Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer, none of this is legal advice
Hi Peter
May I just point out a couple of things that leap out to me on reading your post.
You seem to be very angry at the world for not providing you with a tailor-made social life to the point you're trying to drag someone through the courts - to what end? What are you trying to achieve? You seem to be taking the process as a challenge to 'beat someone' rather than thinking about the situation rationally. More things are achieved with honey than vinegar.
You say your interests are very obscure - so you must realise that the number of people into the same things is going to be a handful at best - and even then, are they bothered enough about the subject to spend time with you talking about it?
Just an observation, but you come across as very intense and intimidating so I can see how you might end up in the situation you are in.
All I can suggest is to realise that, as someone with ASD, we see the world VERY, VERY differently to the NTs and our ability to be an expert in anything we are interested in is very off-putting to the NT ego - they feel inferior so they often become adversarial in response. You appear to not take other's lack of ability to operate at the same level as you as a factor in how they react to you. Your knowledge probably frightens them on many different levels - and their egos can't handle that.
I would suggest a couple of strategies that might help you - like starting or joining a special interest forum - the internet is a big place so you're more likely to find like-minded people there. Either that or maybe find some slightly more main-stream interests that will give you a larger pool of potential social interactions.
If you want to interact with NTs you need to understand them and cut them some slack - it's like you shouting in English in, say, a German pub and expecting them to bend to your language - you know you'll end up being thrown out.
It's worth watching some Jordan Peterson on Youtube - he's good at explaining the fragility on delusions of NTs so I'm sure you'll be able to create a model in your own mind of a better way to interact with them.
What am I hoping to achieve is a valid question. Honestly I want to go back. I was seeking an injunction to that effect. The equality act was specifically designed to give courts, even a small claims court, the power to make injunctions forcing organisations to change discriminatory practices.
More generally I may establish in law an important principal and test a new area of autism law in court. If a case goes to appeal the result of the appeal case is binding on all lower courts.
Depending on how things go it may never get to court. Settlement out of court is a possibility. But if that happens I’m not likely to drop this. I’ll just change tack. I’ll push parliament for legislation to explicitly clarify the law so in the future it will be spelled out clearly that autistic people can not simply be excluded from social settings for being ‘weirdos.’
I see a threat on the horizon for autistic people. For years I had no trouble, at least none on the scale I’ve recently had, in these little geeky enclaves my social life existed in. But more recently a transition has occurred. People are more sensitive and more likely to interpret any thing that offends or upsets them as some sort of crime rather than mere rudeness.
Before if people had an issue with something you said they tended to take it up with you directly so you had a chance to mend fences. now they are more likely to go directly to an organiser and demand ‘something be done.’
It causes this absurd situation where autistic people can be told they’ve caused some sort of incident of which they themselves are totally unaware. Incidents no one will actually reveal to them incase doing so reveals the identity of whom even has complained about them.
As the world becomes more sensitive, dare I say politically correct, there is a real risk more and more autistic people will find themselves being kicked out of organised social groups and activities on the basis of complaints they aren’t allowed see but where the details may very well boil down to ‘this person is a weirdo.’
I personally believe someone has to take a stand and nip this trend in the bud. Am I really the only one concerned about this?
Your just refering to modern day society in general man everyone's that way these days wouldn't take it personally people are just diks in genral these days. I don't bother going out because people are mean about my autism I don't go out anymore cause people are to how to understand these days so what's the point. NT geeks tend be overly sensitive anyway at the best of times. Like for me I paint Warhammer but I don't play it cause I find the geeks that do play it intolerable to socilise with. And realisticly it's probably a lost case as you can't force somone to like another person or socilise with you. The reason we don't bother with taking leagel action is cause we know it's a lost cause anyway.
If they don't have evidence besides there own word against yours. Then you should be fine. I'd exsplain to the judge it's sabatotage due to your autism and basically a form of herrasment and bullying. Assume your researching. Hate crime acts against Autistic people as that should help further your case.
In my case there is a big organisation that’s thrown itself in on the side of my accusers. If they back down now they’ll loose face and be forced to change things they really don’t want to change. And right now the legal side is very much going their way. They’d have to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory to loose now.
I should also add even though I hadn't been assessed back then I still knew I was autistic back then and so did a lot of people as I was in the final waiting stages of my assessment this was about 5 months ago mind and partly what inspired my tattoo as well due to the fight I had to battle with this issue and how it impacted on my mentality.why I can't sympathise with NTs either as I realise now just how crule they can be to autistic people.
Oh it did hence why I had to get the police involved in the end didn't come to the point where we had to go to caught but yeah I had to go to the police to exsplain my case and the person who had done this to me was aprently notorious for doing it to people in the past too so sure enough they got found out in the end but they should of been arested due to the stress and greif it caused. You'll be alright like me your chatrophising the worst case out come. Even after the event my therapist exsplained to me that it was never a serious thing to get worked up over in the 1st place just a bunch of people being spiteful no reason because they had a problem with my autism. But this is why it's a hate crime to spread rumours about autistic people due to how we take it and how something perceived as small and petty to NT can throw an autistic person over the edge as we don't handle bullying well due to our condition. I'm sure you'll be ok mind turned out ok in the end but I understand the nightmare and he'll you must be going through.
Now suppose those rumours took the form of a complaint about you, and the people in charge of investigating the complaints were this other persons mates. Suppose you never even got to hear about it until the day they told you they were kicking you out. Suppose your friends never even got the chance to take your side because everything was done in secret. Suppose a small clique took control of the place you felt was home and forced you out because it suited them and some one was stupid enough to put them in charge and let them do what they want …
but as I said. Right now I don’t feel like I’m winning at all.
I always find when it comes to autism although the majority tend to accept us understand there are always the odd few in groups that dislike us purely on the bases of autism similar situation happened to me down my local pub but resolved that issue now and everyone is fine with but some malicious NT basically tried to sabatage me and spread rumours about me and bullied me down there eventually everyone saw how horrible this person was and backed me in the end but during the time it really had a big impact on my mental health and anxiety. Had I of been assed when at the time it happened I'd if definitely taken it to caught as a hate crime so good luck with the case and hope it you get the result your after
You don’t get it. This wasn’t like any clique. Oh don’t get me wrong there were a few cliques there but as a whole it was a place people could really be them selves, could dream together about the world they way it should be instead of how it was. It wasn’t perfect but it was mine, and it felt like home.
we weren’t goths or metal heads … there was diversity of styles and interests. But we were nerds, otaku, weebs if you will. And we weren’t overly fussed about putting people in pidgin holes.
we had goth weebs. Burlesque weebs, math weebs, rock weebs, literature weebs, pirate weebs that made dresses for fun. It was a place where you could be yourself with out needing to fit neatly inside a stereotype.
trust me such places truly do exist. For a while I was there.
Oh your socilising with goths. I laugh cause I can relate what with being a metal head. Metal heads and goths are two of the most overly sensitive types of people going. Although I'm a metal head I don't socilise with other metal heads as I find the msjoyto be nutters and wre all very opinionated. I wouldn't take it personally usually us wiredos in the subgenra culture never tend to get on with one another even though we listen to similar types of music or dress the same. Hence the only time you see metal heads or goths were usually by ourselves. That's just the way it goes I've come to realise it's mostly punks tahts socilise to get her but that's cause they all have same left wing mind sets and although I like punk I don't care for politics behind it
No. It was real. There was a place where I was allowed to be me and people, at least some people, accepted me as such.
it’s no myth it existed. My anime soc. Where I could talk about the quirky and weird things that fascinated me and actually get intelligent interested replies most of the time.
It was there I found someone who invited me to my first goth night. There where I learnt at least sometimes I could make girls laugh. It was there we would sit in the pub and discuss quantum computing, micro nations and world domination.
if it wasn’t for that place I’d never have found half of the confidence to do what I have and try what I’ve tried. It made me believe for a moment I could still have a youth.
lol for a moment I even held out hope one of my female friends might eventually be a girlfriend.
rowdy house parties, nightclubs, anime conventions, zombi apocalypse games, nights spent making fun of riots, lampooning politicians and dreaming up electric lingerie of questionable safety.
there was a place where people like me were welcome once, where we didn’t have to be alone. And it only took a few bad apples to take it away.