Published on 12, July, 2020
Sorry - I wasn't going to come here and bother you good people again. But the truth is, I've got nowhere else to go where there might be people who will understand.
I start my new job tomorrow. And I'm scared. Not just the usual night-before jitters that I always get before starting a new job. No - really scared. It's eight weeks now since I was last at my old job, as many of you will know. I went sick that day with a horrible anxiety attack - and I didn't go back. I worked my ticket. While I was off, I had my interview for this new job, and got it. It was such a relief just to give notice and know that at least I didn't have to face that woman again. For all of that, though, the job was perfect for me in so many other ways. The part-time hours were right, the pay was enough. It fit the bill. And it just seemed to drop in my lap right when I most needed it, after my time caring for mum, then the months of coming to terms with her passing. I felt blessed. But it went wrong, and that's all there is to it. And so to now.
The new job will be more demanding in a lot of ways. It's a far bigger organisation, it's full-time hours again (albeit term-time only, so longer holidays), and there's a huge amount to learn. They've already got me on the online courses, and there's over thirty of them - many of them long courses. I hate online learning, too. It doesn't work for me. But there it is.
That's incidental, though. The main thing is... this time off has made me realise just how exhausted I was. How much I needed a break. Since Christmas, when I stopped drinking and started to sleep better, I've been managing 10 hours a night, then still feeling the need for afternoon naps. And by nine in the evening, I'm exhausted again. Through doing very little except keep house, do shopping, read and watch films. I know 'doing nothng' can be tiring. But it's more than that. It's as if I've finally been catching up with what I need. And now it's all going to change again - and change up, too.
I know I have a tendency to think the worst, and it's all unknown... and that, by the end of the week, I may feel a lot better. But the thing I really feel is... it has to work this time. This is the last time. I'm sixty in May. Just a number, but it feels significant. Maybe I've made a mistake in changing jobs so quickly, not giving myself proper time. But I panicked. And I just felt it was what I had to do.
If this doesn't work out, if it proves too much, if it's too soon... I'll burn out. I think that may be actually what I'm experiencing already, with all the sleeping and exhaustion. These last 3 years have been some of my most challenging. The end of a damaging relationship and the fallout from that. Then mum's illness and death. Then the problems in my last job, and what that led to.
I just hope this is the right thing I'm doing. I hope.
But scared is what I am.
Have you told your new employer about your condition?
Yes, absolutely. I always make that clear at interview.
I hope your second day goes ok.
I was up front about my Autistic traits at my latest interview last Monday.
And... I haven't heard a word from them.
Sunflower said: Free dinners sounds like a fantastic perk too!
Yes. Because there was a large residential contingent, they had a properly run kitchen. The food was good, too, with healthy options and a good variety.
I was lucky in that during the 9 months I worked there, they didn't rotate me out of day services. So it was 9 to 4. It's a lovely place, with 11 acres of parkland, a lake, an open-air theatre and its own hydro pool. It had a rarefied atmosphere. I used to walk or cycle in there in the mornings and there was a sense of quiet. The training was also some of the best I've come across in care - and the manager I worked under was one of the best I've had in my working life. Fair, no nonsense, understanding. I'll just have to see if I get an interview.
Good luck for the interview today. Did it feel like it went well?
Yes - autism understanding is so important. That's why I thought my last employer would be ideal. I learned a lesson there! It was great in so many ways - the hours were right, and the pay was sufficient. But the downsides really weren't worth it.
Roll on retirement!
So pleased to hear this encouraging news Tom. I am still convinced it is all going to work out for the best for you in the end. What a lovely person that Shaw Trust bloke sounds to be!
Parking is a big thing for me too. I put it on my employment checklist. I had an interview today and went early to be sure of getting parked. Won't hear the outcome until next week as they are interviewing on Monday too.
Keeping a really open mind about future employment. Trying hard to stick to my checklist. A real priority for me is to work somewhere where autism is understood and accepted.
Going back to somewhere where you are known and respected seems like a very good plan. Cars are a massive expense so financially it would be really liberating to be able to walk to work. Free dinners sounds like a fantastic perk too!
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Thanks, Sunflower. The Shaw Trust guy is great - a Sarf London lad like me! He's offered to meet me tomorrow at the Job Centre, where I have an appointment to discuss the current circumstance in respect of my UC claim. He also said he'd come with me to a WCA if I end up having one. Finally, he offered to attend any meeting I may need to have at the College - HR, Occupational Health, etc - if they agree to it. I think, as I explained to him today, that what really hit me was the stuff I was landed with all at once: having to do a Maths GCSE, having to do an NVQ, having to do a lot of online training... all that on top of the other new stuff to learn. Then there was the slight negative vibe I picked up in the classroom. Also, I've found the unpredictable nature of the parking to be a hassle. It's very much pot luck if you can manage to park close to the College. You never know if you're going to have to allow for a 10-minute walk or a 20-minute walk, and the traffic in that area is horrendous at rush hour. Even though it's not that far from where I used to work (other side of the city), it takes a good hour to get home in the evenings, whereas it was around 25 minutes in the last job (which had onsite parking). Sure, it's only for 38 weeks a year, and I get a 'recharge' break of at least one week every 6 or 7 weeks, and 2 months off over the summer, which are big bonuses. It's about weighing it all up, though.
In other news, though... the local care charity I worked for before I took over mum's full-time care is advertising for the job role I had - Independence Trainer (basically, Support Worker with mixed special needs). I liked working there very much. It's on an enclosed estate (former manor house). They always treated me well, and they held my job open for me for a couple of months whilst I was caring for mum. They had to let it lapse, though - but still told me they'd like me back. The only drawback with it was the fact that they do rotations every four months, which would mean shift changes. But I can apply to be core staff in day services once in role, so that could obviate that. Day service hours are 9 to 4. Residential is the usual earlies and lates, but I'd manage that if needs be. The main other thing is - it's 15 minutes walk from where I live, so I'd have no traveling expenses. I could get rid of the car, which would save around £1500 a year. Also, I get free dinners there. Okay, it's back to a full year rather than term time only at the college, with those nice long holidays. But its swings and roundabouts. Anyway... I've applied, and knowing them - if they interview me - the interview will be quick in coming.
It's lifted my spirits a bit knowing that's there. They know I'm good at the job, and I know the staff and service users. So... irons in the fire. I'll see what comes up tomorrow at the Job Centre, and when I speak to HR.
Timing and readiness is everything Tom - you are doing the right thing by taking a step back. Have you considered referring yourself to Access to Work if you do decide to sign the contract? They can do a workplace assessment and put in support from the start.
If I stay in my current roles I have asked for sessions with a mentor who has specialist knowledge of autism and employment. I have also asked for autism training for my colleagues and managers. It remains to be seen if this works out OK.
My instinct is to get a job somewhere else where I don't have to keep explaining myself. There will be other pressures of course, but I want to escape the bullying behaviour, which is the thing I find most difficult to deal with.
Do hope your GP and Shaw Trust Adviser continue to give you good advice and support.
Take care ()
You sound like you’re taking the best care of yourself. Thinking of you X
Thanks, extraneous. I'll see him this afternoon. I'll cycle over. It's along the seafront. That'll help. It's such a bright and sunny day. Just very cold!
Thanks for your kind thoughts, BlueRay. As I said above, I got some 'comfort' from a bottle last night. But it's not something I'm going to carry on. I've thrown the rest away. Rest is what I need. Not self-medication. I slept long and soundly last night, at least. I'm not doing anything too strenuous today. Resting, and a bit of quiet meditation later. x
Thanks, Sunflower. I'll see my GP tomorrow and sort out the fit note issue. I've got to contact HR, too. I'm going to tell them that I don't want to resign (though I haven't actually signed the contract yet), even though I don't really know if I want to keep the job on. I don't really know anything at the moment. My head is all over the place. I was feeling so down yesterday I bought a bottle of wine just to take the edge off. That inevitably led to me going out for more when it was finished. I drank a little more, then went to bed. This morning, I tipped the rest away. I don't want to go down that route again. I managed 30 days without, and it isn't the solution. But it lifted me a bit yesterday.
I really thought I was ready to return. But all of it - the small classroom with the music constantly playing, the unfriendly vibe I got from that colleague (she may just have been having a bad day), the realisation of all the training they want me to do (including a GCSE and an NVQ - neither of which I expected) - it just hit me like a train. Even the long holidays didn't ameliorate it. Standing back and looking at it objectively, it's all manageable. I've done these things before in my life. But I can't look at it that way - at least, not at the moment. It's just all this stuff falling in on me.
Thanks again, BlueRay. I'm doing what I can with being positive. Honestly - seeing my brother would not be a good thing. Apart from his wife, of course, he's the last person I would go to. He's very much her puppy dog. He doesn't have a lot of time for me and hasn't done for many years. I've tried many times to smooth the waters and to reach out to him - but things that happened around mum's final illness, my caring for her, and then the aftermath of her passing... I won't go into it, but he and his wife did some damage, and I find it very hard to accept. I can forgive him because I think he doesn't really know his own mind - it's controlled by her. I suggested at the time we have a sit down and a talk, but he wasn't interested. His own daughter has tried, but he's resistant to her, too. He walked past his own son in the street and didn't acknowledge him. I think he's afraid to face things. He's afraid of the consequences for himself. He told me once he hates being alone with his thoughts. He's very buttoned up emotionally. No... I've held out the hand, and he's refused to take it. So, I'll leave it to him now to make any moves. I've done my bit, and I need to move on.
Martian Tom I can't add much except to agree this isn't your fault, it's a bear garden there and the pressure is ridiculous. I do get why you're feeling so awful but please don't feel like it's all your fault, I think we all struggle daily with the grim economics of AS. It'll sort itself out one way or another - hope your adviser can help.
I’ve had to come back on here. I’m sat reading and listening to rain (on YouTube) but I have a strong urge to reach out and comfort you ~ not that I’d have a clue how to do that, lol, I’m the world’s worst comforter (and the world’s worst receiver of it) but I feel like that’s all you really need. I don’t know how it’s actualy done, but consider yourself comforted ~ I’ll send it through the ether
Hi Tom it really is impossible to know how ready we are to return to work until we try. You had doubts about this job, but if you hadn't had a go you would have been left wondering what might have been.
Where health problems relate to a specific job the fit note may not be that relevant to a different role. I'm not surprised it didn't occur to you to mention it.
The main thing now is to take good care of yourself (and Daisy) and focus on positive steps like seeing your Shaw Trust adviser. ()
It’s a mistake I have made many times, going back to work before I’m ready, that’s why this time, I’m taking my time. I tried a short spell of part time work last year, which didn’t work out because I just wasn’t ready, but I guess I had to try it, to realise that.
I don’t think you’ve screwed up Tom, on the contrary. You’ve shown great determination to get back to work and you’ve done everything within your power to keep going. If that’s not the best thing for you just now, then so be it. Please don’t give yourself a hard time over it.
I would really love for you to contact your brother or neice or sister in law (obviously not the narcissistic one) and just spend a little bit of time with them. I know we like our own company, but sometimes it does us good to be around people who love and care for us and I know your family do, how could they not?
It sounds like work are being great about this. I don’t think your competence is in question and if you go for another job, you don’t even have to mention this one.
You’re doing remarkably well, under the circumstances Tom. It’s probably hard for you to see that right now, but you are. I think you just need a bit of time for yourself. Spend sometime outdoors or reading your favourite books or better still, watching your favourite comedy’s.
You’re doing ok. You’re experiencing a lot of current and old emotions and we all know emotions are hard for us, they confuse us and make us wonder what the hells going on which can make us feel like we’re drowning, but we’re not, it just feels that way.
The best thing to do, to counteract it and open up some space to process stuff, is to focus on the opposite. For example, keep bringing your thoughts back to all that’s good. Daisy, your writing, the sea, the great outdoors. Yes, there’s much that isn’t perfect in the world, but there’s much that is, and that’s where we need to train our thoughts to live.
You can at least know that you’ve done everything you can to keep in regular employment, so maybe it’s simply a sign that you need a bit more rest.
Be extra kind to yourself, and treat yourself as you would anybody else that you loved dearly. Keep focusing on the good and remember this is just a spell, it will pass. Take care
I think I've truly screwed everything up. My last medical certificate was issued to cover me up to 15th February - essentially to get me beyond the period of notice at my last employer and to cover me on my UC claim. I hadn't thought about it when filling in the Health Questionnaire for my new employer because I didn't think of it as 'undergoing current medical treatment' - and I was fully expecting to go into my new job role fully ready and capable.
I've been in touch with HR, who are being very supportive in the circumstances. They've asked me to send an email confirming this, which they will attach to the questionnaire. If I go sick, there will be an Occupational Health interview, and from there it will be decided as to whether or not I am fit to return to the role in the short term. As I've said to them, I really don't know. This has caught me unawares.
They could well determine that I am not suitable for the role and let me go - which won't look good for future employment applications.
The DWP have set up an interview with me on Friday to discuss my current situation. I'm also seeing my Employment and Wellbeing Adviser at Shaw Trust tomorrow.
But everything seems to be in a mess now. Why didn't I wait until I was ready? But I thought I was?
What's happening to me?
Thanks. My niece is okay to talk to - but she still doesn't get autism. I've tried lots of ways of demonstrating what it's all about, but she still tends to come down with 'lots of people have problems at work, lots of people get depressions,' etc. Then she'll say things like one of her employees 'is definitely autistic because he is always interrupting conversations, he gets annoyed if you bother him, he's not very friendly', etc... so I tend not to pursue it! At least she shows some empathy, though. My brother? No. I'm just not comfortable in his company any more, and the feeling is mutual.
I went in today and spoke first to my line manager, who - as I thought - was great. Her oldest son is an Aspie with a lot of emotional regulation issues, so she knows how it can be. She got me an appointment with HR straight away and sat in on the meeting. Basically, they both think I should see my doctor, and should not return to work until I'm really ready for it. As I explained, I don't know how long that might take, and I don't want to keep them holding a job open, because that isn't fair on anyone. They then told me to go home and think things over for a couple of days, then let them know on Friday how I want to go forwards. Either to resign, or defer starting. They said if I go sick and defer starting, that would automatically trigger an OH appointment, which would then lead to a decision being made about whether to keep me on (with reasonable adjustments) or terminate my employment.
I spoke to my Shaw Trust Employment Adviser, who said I should take them at their word and stay on. That way, if they let me go, I'm covered. 'Play the system', he said 'even if you don't like doing that.'
Thing is... a large part of me doesn't want to go back now. I'm just not sure it's going to be right, after all. My taster yesterday, in the department (see above), didn't inspire me. That then means, though, getting back on the job search. And the pool is getting smaller the older I get.
I wish you had someone there to share this with Tom. What about your neice or ex sister in law? Would you talk to them about it?
You’re not back to square one if this job doesn’t work out, it just means that this job didn’t work out, but we don’t even know that yet.
You’re feeling the fear of it all, which is understandable, that’s why I’d love it if you went and had a cuppa and a biscuit with your neice or sister in law or even your brother. Sod the narcissist sister in law, if you need your brother right now, despite what’s gone off between you both, don’t tell anything get in the way, including pride or fear or anything else.
You're going through some big changes, I’m sure it would make a huge difference if you spent a little bit of time with either your brother, ex sister in law or your neice. You don’t even have to discuss anything, just being with people that we love, even for a little while, can sometimes be enough.
All other past hurts will come rushing to the forefront, this is how it works. If you don’t stay at work today, would you consider calling your brother or one of the others? I think you would benefit from spending a little bit of time with them.
I just get a strong sense that a bit of time out would be good for you, meaning go and have a coffee with your brother, or your neice or ex sister in law, just for the sake of it, not necessarily to discuss things, maybe not at all to discuss things, maybe you could ask them about them ~ get out of your own mind for a little while. We do need people around us sometimes.
Anyway, let us know how you get on this morning. Unless there’s any chance of going back to your old job, there’s no point in going over how good it was there. All of this is just what we do when we’re fearful and it’s not necessarily helpful.
I trust you get a good car parking spot at least this morning and that it goes in the way that will serve you the best. And if you do get the day off, do something you know you enjoy such as being in nature, going for a coffee, going to the sea but I also strongly would love for you to go and see either your brother, ex sister in law or neice or other family member. Did you once say you had an auntie as well? Think of you X
Thanks. Yes. I'm not the only one to have queries on the contract. One of the other guys in my induction group is coming on board as a programme leader in the arts department. He was very unhappy on a few points yesterday, and was even saying he may withdraw if things aren't settled.
I didn't sleep last night and the night has just flown by. I texted my Employment and Wellbeing Adviser at Shaw Trust and said I need to speak to him sometime. I'm going in this morning to see my line manager, but I know I won't be up to working today - not that I can do much hands on stuff at the moment as my DBS still hasn't come through.
My head's just in a mess right now. So anxious that my heart is pounding.
My contract goes on to say that I should raise any concerns before accepting this appointment, and that they then reserve the right to require me to undergo a medical examination by a doctor of their choice at their expense. That may be my best way forwards.
So much is riding on this. If I'm back to square one with jobseeking and sickness, it's going to be a struggle. My last job was just so right in so many ways for me - the hours, the money, the distance. It was manageable, despite the fact that things weren't ideal condition-wise. But then this bullying happened, and ruined everything.
I think I'm also being hit by a backwash from mum's passing. The last few months have stirred so much up.
I think you're right Tom, speak to your manager before signing it. Speak to her like you would a friend, be honest, you're not saying you can't do it, but that you feel uncertain and therefore don't feel confident about moving forwards until you have discussed it.
Let them know what concerns you have, for example, how long is a reasonable amount of time in which to complete the courses and how much time are they estimated to take.
This is a perfectly reasonable response and one that is considered, thoughtful and honest. You're not doubting yourself, you just feel a little uncertain. It might be that after a chat, you feel perfectly ok about it all.
Due to our autism, we often need a little extra time to process stuff and we need total clarity, in order for us to proceed with honesty.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for anybody, autistic or not, to get more clarity before signing anything.
Also, do you know about change of routines etc? Are these likely to happen? Think about what things could trigger a shut down.
You will be showing the qualities of a trusted employer by being honest about your uncertainty, and ultimately of course, you have to consider your health and well being.
How are you feeling now?
I've just taken a look at my contract, which I got today to sign. They want me to sign up for courses in Maths GCSE (don't have one) and an NVQ in Support straight away and complete them in reasonable time (whatever that is), on top of the other online mandatory training I have to do. On top of what I saw and felt today, I just feel everything caving in right now. I'm not sure, healthwise, I'm really up to this. I think I went in too quickly after what happened before.
In the Health section of my contract, it says the offer is 'conditional upon your express confirmation that you are fit to perform your duties and that you do not suffer from any medical condition that would place you or any colleague or customer in any danger in terms of health or safety.'
and
'If there is anything you are uncertain about in relation to your health, you should raise the matter with HR before accepting this appointment.'
'The offer is subject to there being no medical impediment to your undertaking the duties of this post.'
I don't know what to do. My line manager is a really nice person. She interviewed me and is really friendly and approachable. I'm sure she will understand. I think I should talk to her tomorrow. I just don't know what the answer is on my health. I just don't know. I don't want anything to happen, and I go sick, and they then say that I didn't tell them anything.
I think I need to mention my circumstances in the past few months.
I'm really panicking now.
That is excellent news. Good to keep as many options open as possible.
I got thoroughly confused talking to ATW on the phone as they use such specific terminology for employment support. I have sent you a PM with the info they emailed me afterwards just in case it is helpful.
I really like the idea of having someone I can talk to and check things out with other than my line manager. It will make me feel a lot more secure.
Know what you mean about the appeal of time off every few weeks. However a lot of people who work in schools and colleges barely function by the time they get to the holiday periods, and often get ill then too!
Worth weighing everything up very carefully and then doing what is best for you.
I have an interview next Friday morning. It'll be interesting to see what they're offering. I think I'll be honest about my situation, and see if they might be willing to be flexible with me over a few things - especially the rotational contracts. They know I'm good at the job, and they always said that they'd take me back... so I may have some leverage. It also gives me a bit more time to step back a bit and really think over my options. I didn't hear back from HR at the College, having left a message this morning, with a follow-up email later. I told them I wanted to keep the offer open. I'll try them again on Monday, after I've seen my doctor, and see what kind of flexibility they may be able to offer. If they'll give me some more time with the training - not too much early pressure - it may be doable considering the long breaks, which would really be a bonus. The thought of at least a week off every six or so weeks is very enticing. But then so is working close to home, in familiar surroundings, with people I already know and conditions that are pretty good.
Access to Work, too, is something I can always mention. I think it could be very useful - particularly having a support worker.
The interview today was really enjoyable. The atmosphere was very calm and reflective. I liked both interviewers and felt safe talking to them about my diagnosis. I may have been a bit too honest at times but on balance I'd rather be open.
I've got a second interview for another job on Monday which also seems promising. Of course I may not get offered either role, in which case I will probably feel quite deflated. My husband reminded me earlier it's a real achievement to have got this far.
The setting for the job you have just applied for sounds wonderful. Having lots of green space around can be so calming. You are right about keeping irons in the fire. Sooner or later something is going to work out! ()