Social Skills - What do you think?

One thing my assessor said was that I don't really do 2 way conversation.

... my assessor said this to me after I asked him why he started talking about an experience he had had in a place I just mentioned. I said I hate it when that happens! He said, that’s because you’re autistic and don’t do two way conversations! 

I don’t! I hate them. The only thing I really want to do with nt’s, is line them up like I would my teddies, and talk to them, without them answering back. Unless we’re duscussing one of my special interests and they have something interesting to say, then I’ll listen. But otherwise, I’m just not interested. It’s not in my make up so why would I want to learn how to do it? 

I’ve learned enough to not only get by, but to exceed, but at the cost of my health and well being and sanity. So it’s not something I’m interested in any more.

I share all your ways of communication and now I understand them I don’t see them as a problem at all. It depends on what you want. Do you want to learn to be more successful at social interactions with people you have little to no interest in and is the achievement of such a goal worth all the effort to you? If it is, go for it. It’s possible to learn anything we put our heart and soul into. I doubt you’de have much time left for much else in your life though. It would pretty much be a full time job learning how to interact like others when it goes against your nature but if your reason for doing it is big enough, it will be with the effort and I’m sure you would achieve it. 

I love, on the other hand, the conversations and interactions I have with my autistic friends. They’re so random and we don’t tend to do that two way thing. We talk over each other and interrupt each other, but none of us bats an eye at this, because this is just how we do it. I’ve even started to be able to read their body language! Ok, I have only learned one thing with one person but it’s like it came naturally. And far from exhausting me it made me feel really happy, energised and proud of myself.

So for me, it’s a no brainer. I make sure that the time I do spend with people, is largely with autistic people.  

I laughed so hard at the teddy scenario my stomach hurts. But yes that's exactly it. I don't want people to talk back unless it's about something I'm interested in.

I don't completely hate all social situations though. I like doing things like playing games and watching films. I just get really annoyed when people talk through them. But then I get called antisocial. I think talking through a game is antisocial but there we go.

I'm not entirely sure what I want. I think I was interested to see what people think really. I don't want to become completely isolated from other people. I only socialise occasionally, it's not regular but I do feel low if I avoid people altogether. But then I worry that people are just getting really irritated with me all the time.

Sometimes I wonder if I am just socialising with the wrong people but I do get on with them, I just find situations difficult. The problem is, when it goes well I feel better for socialising. When it doesn't go well I feel rubbish.

I don't have any autistic friends to make a comparison with.

I laughed so hard at the teddy scenario my stomach hurts. But yes that's exactly it. I don't want people to talk back unless it's about something I'm interested in.

I don't completely hate all social situations though. I like doing things like playing games and watching films. I just get really annoyed when people talk through them. But then I get called antisocial. I think talking through a game is antisocial but there we go.

I'm not entirely sure what I want. I think I was interested to see what people think really. I don't want to become completely isolated from other people. I only socialise occasionally, it's not regular but I do feel low if I avoid people altogether. But then I worry that people are just getting really irritated with me all the time.

Sometimes I wonder if I am just socialising with the wrong people but I do get on with them, I just find situations difficult. The problem is, when it goes well I feel better for socialising. When it doesn't go well I feel rubbish.

I don't have any autistic friends to make a comparison with.

Shared mental space? I’m going to have to quiz my NT friends about this, this intrigues me, how is this possible? Kind of a interesting concept though.

Lol ~ I’ve just looked up what that word ‘sophistry’ means. That’s wild lol! Very interesting 

It’s not about having a Teflon coating, so much as, seeing the truth ~ we are never upset for the reasons we think. We need one or two techniques that we can use, to shine the light of truth on any situation and we see that nobody actually ever does anything to us, we do it to ourselves. 

Feeling bad, as you call it, is a great thing ~ in my eyes. I love to feel bad ~ it’s a direct clue to let me know  that something is off in my life, either I need to eat or drink or I’m thinking repetitive negative thoughts or I need some sleep or I don’t really like to be in that person’s company, or whatever. It’s my treasured little compass that I use to point me back north, to get me back on track to happiness and peace.

I would never feel bad just because somebody else thinks something bad of me and if I did, I would question that. I would ask, is it true what they are saying about me? How do I react when I believe what they’re saying? Can I think of a stress free reason to keep that thought, to keep on believing that, that person’s thoughts about me, in that moment, mean that I really am what they say, and that I’ll be that for the rest of my life, so I have to feel bad forever. I would question it all. If I feel bad, there’s only one person responsible, and that’s me ~ apart from that time I was with the narcissist and he somehow transferred his thoughts to me!

Maybe that’s what’s happening, normal nt’s are doing to you what the narcissist did to me? But the good news is, I sussed all that out and got over it. Although I did have to go no contact which would mean you would have to go no contact with all nt’s! Could be an option! It’s more or less my world right now ;) 

Heh, sophistry - I mean much as I'd rather not feel bad, I've never developed a teflon coating.

Well, I was thinking of mentioning that developing a 'persona' as an eccentric also works well but (a) it depends on one's own personality (b) it depends on your social environment - I work in academia/arts where eccentricity is considered a good thing (think you're in STEM where it's also well tolerated) and (c) it depends on social expectations of your gender - NT men often resent a woman with a 'big' personality. 

Also, oddly, I found this easier when I was younger and more 'bohemian'. They say that older women are expected to be eccentric but, actually, I don't find this really is the case - people seem to be expecting a blander, more professionalised persona from me these days. It might work again when I retire, who knows. In short, it's a very positional strategy which may not be widely available.

Same ;) 

I apologise Former Memberif I have mislead you in any way, or I wasn’t clear in what I have said ~ I would never say we shouldn’t let others make us feel bad - who am I to say what a person should or shouldn’t do? If a person wants to allow somebody else to make them feel bad, I’m not going to object to that, each to their own. 

I use several techniques for lowering expectations

Probably inappropriate, but this phrase made me laugh out loud with the images created in my head. Like Black Adder with the pants on his head and pencils up the nose..

I use several techniques for lowering expectations 

I learned another trick - be the biggest and brightest extrovert personality. I do lots of very odd hobbies and experiences so I stand out from a crowd of NTs. They then learn to expect the unexpected out of me - which masks my social deficits.

I’m a vipassana meditator and before that, I practiced transcendental meditation for 15 years as well as practicing yoga ~ this is great for loosening the rigid thought patterns.

If there is tightness in your body, it’s related to rigid thought patterns and because we barely know what the thoughts are, by working with the body, you automatically work on the thoughts, at a deeper level. 

I’m also a metaphysician with a life long passion in the mind and I’m generally going to either the school of practical philosophy or  a Buddhist centre, I’ve stayed in Ashrams in India and basically, I’ve been investigating the mind for a long time. 

But yeah, yoga definitely helps not to mention it strengthens the body and massages all of the inner organs as well as our chakras, so it’s a good all rounder :) 

But if I’m honest, it’s having this extended period of time away from nt’s and spending time, for the first time in my life, with other autistic people that’s helping me the most and helping me to get a better grip on the mind. 

I'm the same.

I think that one of the reasons that so many of the threads on this forum go off at wild tangents is because we have so much to say.  We see a point being made, so we have to jump in and respond, bringing our own perspectives, telling our own stories - which then spawns other responses which take their own tangents.

Creativity at work!

It's almost like brainstorming sometimes.

Someone (NT)  told me once that in order to talk to me he had to 'come into my head' - this was a revelation to me, on questioning he revealed that NT's create some sort of shared mental space hovering over their heads in which they converse. Who knew? I have no idea though what it might be like. I did a course in listening skills once, and if I'm really concentrating I can look somewhat like a normal person for up to 30 mins before my concentration starts to lapse and I'm interrupting and boring people again.

Most of my friends are ND but I do have one really good NT friend, when he explains NTs to me I'm absolutely fascinated. On the whole, though, they tend to make me feel conspicuously sub-normal and that's no fun. Honestly Former Member it's easy to say that we shouldn't let other people make us feel bad (my very lovely Nan used to tell me this endlessly along with other advice about being an independent woman which I mostly can't follow) but actually it's hard to just ignore a room full of people treating you like the creature from the blue lagoon. I've also never been able to explain AS to them properly, partly because they're not listening. They insist on thinking it's a mental health diagnosis and therefore act as though I'm possibly going to do something really weird any minute. They so palpably have no idea what to say to me I end up feeling like a cat on a hot tin roof as well. My mother conscientiously asks after my cat's health and then stands there looking like a rabbit in headlights.

I agree Plastic that the easiest way to deal with NT's in a non-family social event mode is to ask them a bland 'open' question and then let them rattle on about their holidays, shopping etc - you can just wander off mentally and zone back in now and again to nod sagely but it's bloody hard work.When I was young, I stayed away pretty much and avoided family gatherings but, as I've got older, I've made my peace with it a bit better, it's not nothing to just dump your family!  At family gatherings my strategy is to find one of my more eccentric rellies who actually reads a newspaper and hang out in a corner talking about current affairs.

@Binary it takes time! Once you know you're on the spectrum you can start exploring strategies and I agree with Former Member that the first step is to figure out what you actually want - realistically - from social interactions. Skills for faking it in a meeting or interview at work are one thing, skills for being able to get through a soiree without feeling like Frankenstein's monster are another. A genuine effort to be able to communicate with a decent ND who likes you are another thing again . . . It's a big topic!

I ask myself all the time whether it's worth it as, in many ways, I'm quite happy as long as I'm left alone to my routine of reading, writing, walking, cooking, hanging out with the cat watching TV and I'm certainly more stable and healthier. What drives me to engage with 'their' world is work (not a big fan of poverty) - but I also find I'm more buoyant spiritually if I do engage with other people. When I was doing my PhD back in the early 90s before it got all corporate, I developed a perfect rhythm for me - go to a few seminars/conference to get my mind wrapped around current thinking, read a lot, write a lot, burn out, withdraw and recharge for 6 weeks, rinse, repeat. But now - O Tempora, O Mores!

Ye I agree about the plan never working out. How do you lower your expectations? You seem to have a lot more control over your thought processes than I do. I see your point about the game thing though.

Oh yeah, if they do get a chance to speak, I reserve the absolute right to but in at any given moment, and demand full attention, with accompanying awe, at what I just said! ~ this is rule number 1! 

Yes, part of the expectation thing (this is what I’ve noticed in me) is due to my inner need to be in control and have a plan worked out etc, for what I’m going to say and do etc. 

The plan ~~~~~~~ NEVER works out exactly as I plan it. 

So I realised, all of this stuff is related to the autism, my plans never work out anyway, why not start taking some chances and learning to lower my expectations and therefore leave some room for surprises etc. Oh, and yes, if we want to interact, we have to accept, that others, in fact most likely everybody, will have a different way of doing things to us. So if we bare that in mind, it’s easier to decide whether playing the game, for example, is worth it to us if others won’t play by our rules. And make a decision based on that. 

See it's funny. I get your rules. I hate being interrupted. But I'm so bad for interrupting. Thoughts pop into my head and spill out my mouth before I've had chance to think it through.

I think part of my issue with social situations is I have an expectation in my head of how things will/should go. And I find it hard when it doesn't go that way. Like the game example. My expectation of playing a game doesn't involve conversation.

Honestly, I’m ruthless. I’m like, you want to be in my company? Ok, here are the rules.

You sit down, shut up and listen. And you don’t move until I’m finished. Not even if your granny’s about to die. I don’t tolerate interruptions! ~ so, do you want to be in my company? 

I don’t hate all social interactions, on the contrary, I’m a very outgoing social being, with a lot to say ~ incase you haven’t noticed ;) but I choose my interactions more carefully now. Now I know what the hell’s going on! Lol! Prior to diagnosis I was clueless and simply blagging my way through life, using every trick in the book. But not anymore. 

I am now in charge of my life and I am therefore in charge of who I chose to spend time with. 

I love socialising with people when I’m doing an activity I love, so I’m creating my life around activities I love. I’m only at the beginning of my journey. In fact, to be fair, I’m barely off the starting block because before I got started, I had to take time to get to know myself. What I like and don’t like etc etc and what I like but can only handle in small doses etc. 

It’s a bit like doing a puzzle. Getting to know the pieces and how they will all fit together in a way that suits me. That is congruent to my nature and creates harmony and peace, for all people, not just me. Of course I have no control over other people, but I like our interactions at least, to be loving, kind, thoughtful and truthful etc. 

And I don’t dislike nt’s. Far from it. It’s just that we see the world differently, we have a different language, different interests, values, goals etc etc. Neither is right or wrong, they’re just right for the individual. I’m eternally grateful to the support that could only come from nt’s, but it doesn’t mean I want to spend my time hanging out with them. That’s like asking a fish to go golfing! But I value their presence in my life and in the world, I just keep it to a minimum.