Autism and poverty

I think it's a flawed link & a lot of what's said does resonate with me. Poverty is a complex issue, but you're looking at it from the wrong angle in my opinion. I don't consider myself a problem in any way or that how my life turns out, or the lives of others, is anything down to me or other individuals. To me, the problem is society and this idea of conforming to what is normal. If we were all meant to be the same then we could have all just been created with the same DNA but we are all different. Those differences should be something we all should feel proud of but for far too long we've all fallen into the trap of continuing this dangerous cycle of following these perceived cultural and social stereotypes, which we ourselves have created. Therefore, I see the whole of society and the culture we've created to be the problem that needs to be fixed, which will provide the solution.

It's like when people tell me anxiety and depression mean I'm broken. My response is that anxiety and depression make me normal, it makes me who I am and it makes me different rather than broken. My brain is simply different, how biochemical reactions take place are different, etc. Mental Health issues are more prevalent than people like to admit at times, to the point that mental health issues are indeed normal if only we were all prepared to admit it but out of fear we all keep everything bottled up out of not wanting to conflict with our programmed ideas of social norms. I've had enough with social norms and it's about time we fought to challenge these ideas and preconceptions. Society and culture aren't static so my choice is to do what I can to challenge these things rather than simply conform to what feels like the accepted normal. I am normal for me. Now I simply need to do what I can to challenge other people to redefine what is normal.

I do consider myself poor and it is a strain with wondering what the future can hold. I grew up pushing myself, challenging myself, focusing on what I can do to improve myself, to fit in, to adapt. What I think more now is "Why did I have to do all the work of having to adapt to everyone else, why can't everyone just work towards accepting the differences?" Rather than classifying someone as weak or stupid for whatever reason, simply see them as different, a human being with a different set of skills and abilities, who with help, can achieve something whatever that may be, rather than giving up on them from the start because they don't conform to some stereotype. We're not machines or robots but human beings. I worked hard, I struggled, I got an education, which all sounds very similar to my parents. My parents worked hard, they struggled, they got an education, but they're now retired having done nothing wrong in their lives according to the idea of a government who will look after those who do the right thing, yet they just about scrape by with their pensions while my parents still work to boost their income while we live in my grandmother's house who is paying the bills. Fortunately, my grandmother does have money though the downside being that she's done nothing much to help sort out my mother in her will as her rich son (my Uncle) is considered the favourite. Ok, it's her choice if that's what she wants but I don't want to hear her talking about loving us when she's prepared to send her daughter into severe poverty to help her rich son.

Anyway, back to the point, I thought that my hard work and my ability would be an asset. Funny thing, I ended up going into Accountancy though with a lack of support I was only able to reach the final level of CIMA exams and was unable to complete it, especially when my employer did absolutely nothing about the 3 years relevant experience. Like others have stated, I put up a mask, tried to fit in, tried to appear normal, but in the end everything I did counted for nothing. I still feel like a failure for the situation I'm in but I know I'm not because it wasn't me that failed, it was my employer and society who failed me. If anything, everything I did could be considered extremely remarkable considering my starting point in life with the difficulties and challenges I had to face and struggle with where others may not have had the same determination and focus I had to keep pushing myself in the hopes of achieving success. I didn't go to work to make friends but believed that my hard work and ability would be recognised and rewarded. I'd say I was definitely recognised considering I was the 'go to' man for all sorts of things, even helping to train people who were above me in the structure, even at times being more able and qualified than them too. However, I believe that due to my lack of social skills, I was seen as someone to be feared and controlled rather than being presented with training, support and opportunities for progression. The culture of my work environment was built on division, fear, deception and manipulation where social networks counted for everything due to the nature of office politics where people want their closest allies next to them to back them up. That wasn't me or my style, for me the priority was the work and the organisation.

I only got diagnosed when I was 32 while I was at that job. All I know is that after that, I was just starting to reflect on life in a different way as I had spent my entire life focusing on the idea of conforming to what I though society expected: to get educated, get a job, build a career, be successful. This is what my time growing up had programmed me to believe because I knew I had the ability and skills to be successful but others around me prevented me from getting there. It felt like I had spent so long focusing on trying to get through the wall in front of me, doing everything I could think of to get through it but it wouldn't budge. I just started to evaluate my life, what was the point of it all, so getting a bit philosophical and the like really. I came to the conclusion that this idea of gauging life success through career achievement and salary was meaningless to a degree because I had set myself up to fail due to the fact that the system I was trying to make progress in wasn't prepared to let me continue. I was prepared to give up on the idea and settle for a simple finance job at work, which would have meant earning enough to pay the bills so that I could focus on other things. I just realised that I was getting older, I was being discriminated against, the profession was competitive with a constant flow of new entrants, I was stuck between effectively being overqualified and skilled for the entry level jobs to restart my career, which was extremely competitive, but I didn't have the opportunities, support, skills, knowledge, etc. to really progress and thrive in taking the next step in my career.

Shortly after that, my employer made me reach my limit, by even taking that simple finance job away from me in an organisational restructure where I was forced into a job I didn't want on a permanent basis. To me, it was them effectively sending the message that this was it for me and that they would put me where they wanted me to be, which was out the way and with no chance of anything beyond it. I finally broke but I had built up my own reserves of strength and resilience because I would not allow them to beat me. There's only one person who can beat me and that's me, if I had given up that would have meant giving up on myself and letting them win, letting them walk all over me and allowing them to do it. I walked out even though it would mean giving up everything I had built up in life and gambling on the unknown of what would come next. If anything though, it makes me realise what my parents went through when I was growing up and everything since then had taught me about what it meant to not give up and to keep struggling even when things were bad. If anything, it's that mentality and drive which allowed me to remain with that employer for as long as I did.

By leaving, it lifted a huge weight off my shoulders and gave me the time and space to think about my life and lots of other things. I had fallen into the same trap and had ended up believing that it was the way I had to live, which then limited me and my options. I'm not exactly saying I have loads of options in life right now but I understand what's at stake with a society, culture and system that is built to fail so many people. So, I state once again, this doesn't have to be the way things are, we can change it and we should all be striving to do so. Just like we in the UK have recently celebrated that some women gained the right to vote 100 years ago, the fight for change, for equality, for fairness, for justice is a fight that we must all do our part in rather than accepting that the way things are is the way they must remain. It will take time for change to take place but we must not let these same cycles continue on.

Thank you so much for your thoughts on this.  It all sounds very familiar and yes, I would say that the associated depression, anxiety and addiction I have seen in my family (plus experienced myself) are entirely understandable responses to adverse experiences.  Whether we would have been so vulnerable to the effects of these experiences if we'd been neurotypical is debatable but I think what we've been through is more of a reflection on society than on us.  And it does need to change. 

Toxic working practices are presumably toxic to everyone to some degree and, in losing the ND thinkers, there is, I think, a significant loss to organisations and the economy.

The prospect of poverty does worry me though.  I was squeezed out of my own accountancy role due to a final reorganisation which, curiously, left me and my job share singled out for involuntary redundancy.  Subtext - "We'll make sure we get rid of those ND part-timers this time around".  Everyone else in the department (including many who were less qualified) stayed.  

My reflections on autism and poverty have therefore mainly sprung from the question, " Why does this keep happening to us?"  But I totally accept that the link is indirect at best and cultural and structural changes are what's really needed.  

That question leads to further negativity because the focus then leads to blaming yourself and seeing yourself as the problem, and in doing so trying to work out what's wrong with you, which can spiral into negativity. This deflects away from the real question of "Why do other people behave in such a manner?"

It doesn't prevent you from trying to see what you can improve about yourself but puts the emphasis on understanding the actual underlying factors of the real cause in my opinion.

I can relate to that. It’s taken me the best part of  a year and the help of 3 support workers to get me to finally learn to take baby steps. I was getting to the point where if I heard them say ‘baby steps’ one more time I was going to freak out, but eventually, they got through to me, and now, I wouldn’t have it any other way. In fact, I’ve gone probably more in that direction than intended!!!! Lol! The black and white thinking and the all or nothing mentality doesn’t change, but I can now at least take some time before acting on my first, second, third or even fourth instinct or more. 

I didn’t know life could be lived in the slow lane whilst still achieving goals but I found out for myself that the less I did, the more I achieved and many things simply sort themselves out without any input from me, if I leave them be. This means I can achieve goals, go at my own pace and really take time to smell the roses along the way ~ which is the best part for me. I love being outdoors in the countryside, it’s my medicine, my tonic and more and I’m building time in nature into my routine as a matter of priority. 

Many thanks.  I'll have a look.  I think my manner of processing and learning stuff can engender a bit of conflict in itself.  On the one hand I rattle through things to extract what I think I need in the shortest possible time.  And on the other I get frustrated because, of course, this only gives me the kind of surface learning which convinces me I've checked something out when really I haven't done it justice at all.

I often just need to slow it all down but this flies in the face of my anxious perception that I'm always on the middle of a crisis and need help fast.  

Sigh...

Absolutely Jenny, I totally understand ~ I've worked out that on average, it takes me about 3 weeks to process even the simplist of things and I've realised that the way I do process and learn stuff, isn't straight forward, even though my thinking often is. 

You can ask me anything anytime but certainly take your time. Just as a way of giving you more information about metaphysical counselling, you can find out more at https://metaphysicalsociety.com/metaphysical-counselling/ they're accredited etc and I can vouch for them but I'm certainly not promoting them or anything, rather just letting you know they're there. 

Thank you BlueRay.  Yes, there is certainly this kind of conflict at the heart of it so maybe a different kind of counselling would be helpful at this point.  I did try psychosynthesis a few years ago, but am not sure how this might compare with metaphysical counselling.  It's something I'll have to investigate.  I'm generally a very conflicted and uptight person so going to the core of that and understanding how it impinges would help.  I might then be able to unravel some of it. 

Lots of food for thought here generally too.  I need to mull things over and come back.  

Much appreciated.

You don’t have to read this (obviously) or take any notice of it ~ I wouldn’t be offended. I see things very differently from most people so I’m not always the easiest person to understand. When I respond, I never know what I’m going to say and I never say I’m right, that this is how it is, I simply offer my perspective. This is what came up for me. 

Ok, first things first. 

First of all I ask you to close your eyes, get comfortable and take three long deep breathes. Be with the breath as you breath it in, all the time being fully aware of the breath as it enters your body through the nostrils. Travel with the breath as it fills your whole body, and when it’s full, hold it for a moment then with a big audible sigh ( this is backed by science but I won’t go into that here), simply let it all out. Do this three times, then sit quietly with the breath as it slowly finds its rhythm, without any effort from you. 

When you’re ready, read on :) 

There is so much inner conflict going on inside of you. I could name many of your inner conflicts but I think that they stem from believing you have to be in control, you need to be in control while at the same time wanting to be completely vulnerable and for somebody to come along and take it all from you. To make it all alright. Or to at least help in some way. 

I can relate to this. I think part of our experience with autism means that we have a deep need to be in control, we often take on all the responsibility while also putting the blame on others, on things outside of us, people, circumstances, finances etc etc. It’s like a never ending cycle of hell. And it is. 

Imagine that in your mind you have two teams and each team has a team of its own. One team is all about putting the responsibility on other people, places, circumstances etc etc. The other team is all about taking full responsibility, for everything and everyone. Each team has a great team who have collected much evidence to prove their point. 

You stand in the middle and like a good negotiator, you strive to give both sides equal airtime, without judgement, in order to come up with a middle path, a resolution, a way forward. 

But this is not possible. You can’t in one breath say that you take on all the responsibility for everyone and everything and in the next breath, blame others. You can’t be both in charge and ask for help, it will never work. But there is another way. 

You’ve got your appointment with the autism team in January and that’s great. I’m sure they can at least help with the benefits. If they can’t personally help then they may have somebody they can refer you too, if not, you can get in touch with a local disability rights group or DIAL (they helped me with my pip application and I just won my appeal). 

With regards to your youngest son. Maybe isolation is what he needs right now? My sisters nephew barely came out of his bedroom for years. He never went to school. His parents were taken to court several times. They used to leave his meals outside his bedroom door and he would open the door when they left, take it inside, eat it then put his empty dishes back outside the door. He seriously barely left his room for years. Then all of a sudden, he got a job, which was temporary to begin with, but he did such a good job that he was given a permanent contract. He also turned up for Christmas dinner with us all, about 16 or so of us and even though he’s still living at home and lives a relatively reclusive life compared to other young men his age, he seems happy and he seems to be enjoying his life. So maybe this is just what your son needs just now. I myself have barely left my house in the past two years. I have not kept in touch with people, including my family, but it’s what I needed and I’m now slowly coming out of this phase. 

With regards to your oldest son, it might be helpful to explore this idea of social skills training a bit more. For example, what is it that he desires to achieve, for example, friends, a love interest, to be able to simply join in with activities he enjoys? The help he needs could come from a whole host of places depending on what he wants to achieve so it’s important to keep exploring this area in order to clearly identify what support will best help him achieve his aims. 

For you, the only thing I can recommend is metaphysical counselling. I’ve been in therapy since I was 16 and the only therapy/counselling that ever got to the core or to the source of the ‘problem’ - for want of a better word - was metaphysical counselling. I had this conflict going on in my mind, similar to yours. I realise now that part of it is the autistic mind needing to be in ultimate control and even though I really did want help, I simply couldn’t be completely open to it. Metaphysics goes beyond that level of mind in order to resolve the conflict. Einstein said you can’t solve a problem with the same mind that created it. We have to use a different level of understanding. Metaphysical counselling doesn’t require you to have any metaphysical understanding. It works with you from where you’re at. It can use common psychological approaches right through to mystical approaches, depending on the person. That’s not the important part. The important part is that it cuts to the source of the conflict. 

I can personally recommend a practitioner. It’s like she has a lazer like precision to get straight to  the point. You can’t do this by yourself, none of us can. 

Anyway, without having a more in depth consultation with you, I don’t think I can say much more. All I know is that you’re at the heart of all this and you need to be where your attention is right now. Regardless of what’s happening with your boys, your husband, your family as a whole or your mother, you have to find some level of stability and peace in your mind and I’m not dissing other therapies etc, I would never do that, but in everything you say I see this inner battle of conflict and I see little point in dealing with each one separately, I would go straight to the heart of them and that’l deal with all of them. 

My heart goes out to you, it truly does and I have no worries about your boys. You have given them and continue to give them the one thing we all want, the most important thing in life, which is love and acceptance and a home. You do your best for them and more and our love speaks louder than our actions. We all get that part wrong time and time again because we don’t know the bigger picture, how could we, we haven’t got there yet, our lives are still happening and they  never will go to plan. But we can always strive to give our love and sometimes that means giving it to ourselves, regardless of the needs of others around us. Their needs will always be there but unless you attend to your needs, you can’t continue indefinitely to meet everyone else’s needs. Sometimes in life we have to put ourselves first. I would suggest this is one of those times for you. And often, when we let things be, they work out anyway. But we can’t neglect our own needs. 

I know what it’s like to live with that dreadful conflict inside the mind. Nothing seems to appease it. But I no longer live with it. That’s not to say that the thoughts no longer appear, but they appear less often and when they do, I’m finding I can deal with them much quicker. My life’s a work in progress like everybody else’s but since I found a way to get rid of that inner conflict, it’s so much more enjoyable. Best wishes to you and a happy new year to you also X 

Yes, services are fragmented, patchy and under-resourced when what we need is continuity, co-ordination between services and appropriate signposting, without having to join yet another waiting list once one service decides they can't help us.

I foolishly expected more but now realise that it might be quicker for me to seek some autism training for myself!

Sorry, I should have been more specific. By "support they need", I basically mean like you're trying to do, just someone to be there to help them become themselves and find their own way rather than services that only make the situation worse, don't actually deal with the actual issues, which leads to escalating issues, which then take longer to process. So, basically, the chaos of your life so far pretty much represents them not getting the support they need. If the chaos continues, the process of them working things out will take a lot longer.

So, I suppose to put it simply, they need the support of someone who will actually work with them, not dictate to them, not judge them, not work against them.

Right now, you're expending a lot of energy trying to sort out the services that should actually be doing their jobs properly. To me, that isn't right.

This is brilliant Ms Butterfly and when I get home (I'm currently in the pub having something to eat) I will go through the list and respond because already I've got suggestions. 

You did a great job and for sure, your needs will all be met ;) 

Indeed.  I was quite challenging in one appointment and the practitioner became angry and said I was disrespecting her.  I was, however, simply objecting to going down the same routes as had already been tried and which had turned out to be quite damaging.  I had a list as to why.  

And now, knowing that services can be quite damaging, I sometimes hesitate to push for things.  

Ah, here's what I think I want:

A co-ordinator who can act as my guide as to what services are available, the shortest waiting lists and, if these are long, which private or voluntary services locally might be of most help.

A coach/therapist with specialist knowledge of autism and family dynamics, who could see me initially weekly but then monthly as our situation eases, to act as a sounding board for my own ideas plus a bit like a counselling supervisor regarding strategies I might use that are in keeping with my person-centred approach.  I'm prepared to pay for this but have no idea who to choose and trawling through, say, the BACP practitioner list seems very hitty-missy.  

Strong advice and guidance on services for my sons, to which I can confidently refer them in our family discussions, knowing that, were they to take up any of our open-ended offers, the doors would be open for them and we could depend on them being seen promptly.  Again, prepared to pay for this.  The bottom line is that I would remortgage the house to help them (even though this would trigger my anxiety about poverty).

Some help with benefits claims for someone who refuses to engage with services and won't attend any DWP meetings (part of their total withdrawal from everything)

Some social skills training classes would be a help too, as my older son has specifically requested these but I can't find any.

Sigh.  

In my dealings with alleged MH 'professionals' is that they have no clue about autism .Their only solution is to medicate the 'symptoms' into oblivion.

They seem to HATE high-functioning because you might dare question their god-like abilities.

They like low-functioning because they can push them around and it boosts their ego to medicate and 'cure' them.

In my dealings with alleged MH 'professionals' is that they have no clue about autism .Their only solution is to medicate the 'symptoms' into oblivion.

They seem to HATE high-functioning because you might dare question their god-like abilities.

They like low-functioning because they can push them around and it boosts their ego to medicate and 'cure' them.

Indeed.  I was quite challenging in one appointment and the practitioner became angry and said I was disrespecting her.  I was, however, simply objecting to going down the same routes as had already been tried and which had turned out to be quite damaging.  I had a list as to why.  

And now, knowing that services can be quite damaging, I sometimes hesitate to push for things.