Failing to understand others

Well explained. 

Yes - this.

NAS39246 said:

The word Autism is derived from a word meaning "Mute" (does not speak)

Not so; it comes from the Greek "autos", meaning "self". It's a bizarre hang-over from long-outdated theories of psychology, originally referring to the self-centred fantasising assumed to be part of schizophrenia. It's arguable whether or not it's particularly apt for the condition which it now describes, though it would be tricky to change it now.

NAS39246 said:

Are you sure that while you are talking to your friends you are not just thinking of other things at the sametime or feeling a bit stressed because of it?

I'm absolutely sure that I am thinking about other things...

• What did that weird tone of voice just then mean? I should maybe scan my memory to see if I can identify it.
• How long is it since I looked that person in the eye; should I do it again, now? Or would that be too much or too little?
• What the hell is that annoying noise over there that my brain won't let me ignore?
• What is this "it" that we're talking about? My brain hasn't finished processing the words from the previous couple of sentences, so I don't know what the "it" is referring to yet.
• Oh. Oh. I just thought of something really interesting to say about that thing that someone mentioned ten minutes ago!
• You said you felt emotion X about person Y because of event Z. How mystifying, I must try to work out why that would be; at my age, it would probably be seen as very rude or extremely stupid to ask.
• How important was that last thing you said? Is it a throw away comment that I can forget completely, or should I remember it because it might be relevant later, or would it be a useful example to learn more about the art of conversation?
• Arrgh. What am I doing with my hands; I might be flapping them! Someone might see! Quick. Check. No, I'm not. Phew!
• I wish that person over there would shut up. Their words are getting jumbled up with yours, so the messages are getting mixed together.
• Concentrate, concentrate, concentrate. Don't let your mind wander...just...um...er...what were we talking about again? Oh, yes, I remember. Dammit, how much did I just miss?

I think about these things at all times during conversation; because I either can't help it, or because I have to think about them to have any hope of understanding or behaving appropriately. There is no instinct which tells me, no intuition, no gut feeling. I have to consciously process everything that my senses are taking in, and there's a lot to take in, because my sub-conscious sensory processing doesn't filter out all of the irrelevant details that I struggle not to be distracted by.

I'm a lot more than a "bit" stressed out by this. My brain is constantly trying to juggle a dozen trains of thought all at once, and I could drop one at any moment. I can't stop my brain from doing this thinking, and even if I could, some of it is essential to regulating my social behaviour.

NAS39246 said:

why does it need to be Autism?

It doesn't need to be, it's just one of the possibilities. There is a problem here, because autism is usually judged by behaviours observable from the outside, not by the attentional, sensory, perceptual, and cognitive processes which lead to these problems. I'm confident that I'm autistic because I understand now the kinds of brain functioning that have led to my social problems, not merely because of the presence of those social problems.

I think you are quite right that paying attention to the right details at the right moment can improve understanding of facial expressions, one of voice, etc., and when taken in isolation, my skills are not too bad. However, the attentional, sensory and cognitive differences which I have make them inherently difficult to apply in real life - unfiltered sensory information bombards my brain to the point that I can't possibly focus my attention on the right thing at the right time because I can't locate it quickly enough in the mass of sensory input. Unlike a test in a lab, no-one ever stops the conversation to say; "look at my facial expression right now, it explains what I meant by that last sentence."

For example; I often look like I'm not paying attention when actually I am - my eyes glaze over because both looking and listening at the same time overwhelms my brain's ability to form a coherent sense of what's going on, so I concentrate on listening and exclude visual information; that way, at least one channel of communication is relatively clear. When my brain is tired, the conscious thoughts which allow me to simulate eye-contact, keep an eye on my posture and gestures, etc. go out of the window, because I don't have the processing power for them, and combatting the attentional problems so that I can keep my mind focused on the conversation gets ever harder with each passing minute.

This doesn't just impair the ability to form a picture of other people's intentions and motivations during a conversation. When you have lived your entire lifetime like this, it impairs the ability to learn about how people's intentions and motivations function and how they communicate them. There are none of the things I mentioned which a non-autistic person couldn't experience, and most do from time to time, usually under extreme circumstances. The difference for many autistic people is that they're the only way do to things which we have available, and we have never known any different, and never will.

Autism is a broad condition and I think can be quite difficult to grasp a sense of what it is as the expression of ASC can appear very different in one person from the next. 

You may be interested in checking this introductory Future Learn module out at some point (though it may raise more questions than it answers): 

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/autism

You may also be interested in Googling Sara Hendrix,  Carley Fleischmann and Ros Blackburn (I may have slightly mispelled some of these names). These 3 women have all been diagnosed with Autism and have quite different 'spikey' profiles. 

That’s fine. You are you. I am me. As long as that is clear! It really doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. The word autistic is just a word. It doesn’t harm anyone. If I want to say I have golden hair and blue eyes it really doesn’t matter. They too are just labels and stereotypes.

i have work to do now. Address your issues if you want, or don’t. It really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. Again goodnight. 

I am not a Taxi driver.

I used to drive a taxi, but now i drive lorries long distance.

I am not a Lorry driver either though.

I am a human being with pro's and con's.. My pro's dont make me a genius and my cons dont make me Autistic.

Keep an open mind. Not every person with cerebral palsy is in a wheelchair. Not every person with Down’s syndrome doesn’t get a job, or even a degree. Not every taxi driver knows their way around Manchester or south London. Life isn’t about confronting people. Keep an open mind. 

You would need to give me examples of what it is you do not understand.

Is it something like you hear a person at the bar say "i am going to effing kill him" and so you phone the Police, just for the Police to arrive and confirm that you did not understand the concept? and in actual fact he did not say he was going to "kill someone". Or, maybe he did but certainly did not mean it that way?!

That was one part of a larger picture, but it was a key indicator for me because I could observe that lots of other people weren't having these problems in the same place. I can't for the life of me tell you why it appears I sometimes struggle to understand (it's not like I'm ever thinking to myself "duhhhh what did he say????") and I also can't understand why the norms find it apparently difficult to understand me.

Like I said, it just seems that sometimes there's a "lossy channel"...  That's observational science in action.

Your totally right about Autism. It’s a difference.

So come 2018 "Occasional difficulties with communication" = Autism?

The word Autism is derived from a word meaning "Mute" (does not speak), and is supposed to be apparent before aged 2 or 3. Yet now an Adult that feels they have occasional difficulties with communication with "friends" can now be diagnosed as suffering from the same disorder as those that may sit in an institution rocking in silence? Are you sure that while you are talking to your friends you are not just thinking of other things at the sametime or feeling a bit stressed because of it? why does it need to be Autism?

Frustrating, isn’t it! I’m not really sure who crosses the wires. 

Occasional difficulties with communications were one of the things that finally led me to decide that I likely had autism.  I don't have any particular difficulties with language as such, although I do sometimes find putting my thoughts into words a bit of challenge.  I had however a number of occasions where I thought there was a clear and unambiguous understanding with people, but then they went and did different things.  At first I thought they were just being belligerent though they claimed they weren't and that I had misunderstood.  (Actually, I understood exactly what they said and could quote back the words but then they claimed I'd misheard or blah blah blah... (yeah right)).

In the end I thought, lets assume for the sake of argument that they aren't just being bloody minded, and lets assume there's some other cause.  The only thing I could think is that somehow what I said was sometimes not being received properly by them, and what they said wasn't being received properly by me.  So it's like occasionally there's noise on the line or something.

I cannot comment on a lad I don’t know. Con artists do come from all walks of life, though. So do the easily conned. There probably are some misdiagnosises in the big scheme of things, as with all branches of medicine and psychiatry. But that doesn’t make all assessments wrong. Personally, I thought psychiatrists are mental ....then I met one who actually helped. And if that makes me weak, who cares. It’s made me stronger in the long run. 

Nobody is right or wrong. Just different viewpoints. Goodnight. Keep an open mind. 

Pps. Autism is not retardation. I view it as quirky personalities! Perhaps your ex wife’s brother was relaxed at home, but heavily stressed at school, so behaved differently. Just a thought. 

I know him.

He was intelligent, talkative, intuitive, and could understand concepts that only adults understand.

However at school he was shy, and the school somehow got in to their heads weird things like he does not understand tones of voices, yet unlike in his home life, he would not stick up for himself at school, and allowed the school professionals to think these things about him.

It is however frustrating knowing that the nieve individuals are infact the school professionals that seem to think that his shyness at school equates to crazy things such as "facial expressions etc".

The lad was actually a highly advanced con artist, and con artists understand others perfectly well, and if you were to tell him he does not understand facial expressions his response would be "WTF do i care about facial expressions while walking away with their wallet".

Ps sorry I aired my views about some taxi drivers!!! Nothing personal. 

At last I can try to understand your views! I think I can understand how devastating it probably was for your family. The parents of children on this forum post here too and have problems such as these that they discuss on the forum. 

Thank you for answering my question regarding "listening".

I actually like hearing others points of view and am delighted when i am proven wrong!