Having another child

Hi!

We appreciate you sharing your personal experiences here. This forum was set up as a safe space where people can get support, advice and inspiration. Some of the previous posts have gone down a judgemental route and we would like to remind of you of the community rules. 

By all means we encourage you to share your experiences, however, please be supportive of others and respect different points of view.

Take care,

Avi

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This forum is remarkably free of disputes and I would like to encourage everyone to keep it that way.

Outraged has valid experience of this process from the child side of the parent-child equation. He has some considerable understanding of what he expereienced and what he feels about it. It is disingenuous to discount it.

Equally, there is a struggle about how people with communication problems communicate. We don't always say the right thing and we do cause offence sometimes.

Outraged will give you what he thinks and feels sometimes and it is helpful to understand that his childhood experience is an important part of understanding why he feels like that.

It occurred to me wonder if Outraged could be Kitty's child! It's a slightly outlandish thought but not impossible. Would each side post things differently if they thought that their parent or child was responding to, or even reading, what was being said. Is there a salutary message for us all there?

Was my understanding correct, Kitty, that you are both an ASD sufferer and also a parent of an ASD sufferer?

Hi everyone,

This post was never meant to start a witch hunt :(  Thanks everyone for your input but I think I will ask for this thread to be closed.

Thanks,

SproutsMa

Outraged,

SproutsMa started this thread to get help and support with a very vital decision she has to make.

Let's take it as read that your advice to her would be first and foremost to totally ignore anything I have posted?

Moving forward then it would be helpful to share your own story... how many children do you have? What ages are they? When were they diagnosed?  How did you decide about the size of your family?  What difficulties have you had and what would you advise to someone in SproutsMa's position?  How can she "be part of the solution"?

I think if SproutsMa could view stories from folk that are 'further down the line' in life it would give her material to work from.  I'm sure she's intelligent enough to weed out the mad from the bad.

I'm not sure discussing (? or leaping to conclusions) about my mothering abilities is helpful but feel free to start another thread on that topic.

Environment is an absolute key to making a success of bringing up an autistic child. Diet is a factor in some, particularly those with fussy eating problems. Agree very much with SOI on that.

I'm saddened by Kitty's posts. It seems possible that her child may have been different in a different environment. As I understand it Kitty is recently diagnosed with ASD and she has an ASD child. As a recently diagnosed aspie I am aware that my own parenting skills were not great. I was not totally in control and I did not have the awareness to make a great parent. Fortunately my own kids have escaped unscathed and our marriage has survived.

It seems to me that Kitty deserves our every support and assistance rather than judgement and castigation. Is there anything we can do to help?

In answer to SproutsMa's earlier question. I was diagnosed with Asperger's/autism at 56 after finding myself in a totally hostile work environment. Prior to that, I had an 'eventful' life but had managed well enough without the understanding of my condition. I also have some dietary sensitivities but am struggling to make a solid connection between that and my behaviour.

I didnt say that I wasn't offended :)  I just assumed that it wasnt her intention.

SproutsMa said:

I don't think Kitty02 was being offensive - she was being honest, which after all, was what I asked for.  All opinions welcomed x

Honest? Yes. Offensive? Also yes, and I believe objectively so. Ive already quoted the single most objectionable line up-thread...the statement "Autistic children get so much worse as they get older" is massively perjorative as for a thing to get worse it has to be, by definition, bad. Do you find the statment "Autistic children are bad" offensive? I also find the line "One Autistic child is a nightmare" to be objectionable but its only a lesser expression of the contempt already displayed. I also think the statement "or worse still, a poor wee normal child caught up with an autistic sibling?" is wildly inappropriate. Is it the posters position that a AS person can only be a destructive force in the lives of their siblings?

What I am most concerned by however is the covert assumption made in the first paragraph that challenging and violent behaviour are inevitbilities from an AS adolescent. This is not the case. Many posters on this forum can provide anecdotal evidence that conflict between an AS pupil and NT pupils is perpetuated by the NT pupils. Whereas parents and schools properly protect the vulnerable AS child in their care from such, the child is substantially less likely to need to defend himself with violence from intolerable psychological abuse. Kitty02 gives the impression that incidents occuring between her son and other pupils were, in her opinion, exclusively the fault of her son. This parental attitude does genuine damage to the child, as well as precluding a proper parental defence of their childs interests and wellbeing.

Kitty02 said:

Outraged:

The message to other parents here is clear: be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Do I read your point correctly - I was a poor mother which is why my child had problems?

Just checking.

I was hoping to avoid making an explicit point, but if pressed Id have to say that your writing profiles as that of an ignorant mother who exasabated an existing "problem" which you could have mitigated. Im not sure if that qualifies as actively bad, but Id want to do better...

I don't think Kitty02 was being offensive - she was being honest, which after all, was what I asked for.  All opinions welcomed x

Kitty02 said:

 Autistic children get so much WORSE the older they get.  

Well that is just factually false. Autistic childrens behaviour (both withdrawl and confrontational) can become more marked...but the relationship is with stress not age...given that you dont know this after 22 years of being the parent of an AS person, I am unsurprised to hear that you had difficulties with challenging behaviour. 

The message to other parents here is clear: be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Agree with recombinantsocks, not all autistic children are a nightmare, and my view is that many behavioural issues (in all children) are caused by diet and environment. Even the sweetest natured child (like it sounds like your son is) is likely to kick off if they are put into a stressfull environment, are bored, and/or are suffering physical pain that they are unable to communicate. If a child is well behaved at home but a nightmare at school, I would be inclined to blame the school!

There is no genetic test for autism, however about 30% of the population (myself included) have a mutation on the MTHFR gene which affects methylation, meaning they have problems utilising synthetic folic acid. Some studies have found higher rates of this mutation in autistic people, and in people with various other conditions, however it may confer some kind of evolutionary advantage as it is so common. Most people don't know their MTHFR status, so I would advise anyone planning pregnancy to choose a multivit containing methylfolate rather than the standard folic acid. 

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../PMC3250974

mthfr.net/.../11 

www.psychologytoday.com/.../genetic-mutation-can-affect-mental-physical-health 

Thank you.  Thats helpful.  And thanks to Kitty02 for sharing her experience.

Socks - can I ask what your diagnosis is?  What prompted you to seek it later in life?

There are a few possibilities here. He might not get a confirmed diagnosis of autism. He is very young but presumably his nursery had reasons to be concerned.

If you can't spot autism anywhere in the family then it is less likely that a sibling would have autism. In my family the condition is rife on my father's side. Several generations and several of my father's siblings are strongly autistic (HFA rather than LFA) but my sons haven't been diagnosed and I wasn't diagnosed until age 56. It's a lottery but the odds are different according to whether you can identify a strong family history.

I wasn't a nightmare at any point. I was a bit odd, shy, introverted, studious, awkward and socially inept but my parents didn't have great issues when I was at home. :-)

Hello Socks :)

Not that I am aware of - or though maybe we wouldnt see them in ourselves?  Neither his Dad nor I have any social or communication difficulties to speak of.

Yes exactly that.  Everyone's experience and choices will be different.  Its just helpful to understand some different perspectives.  We have tried really hard not to let people pigeon hole him behaviourally since we have been in this process - yet everyone seems keen to do it. :)

I guess its different again for those who were diagnosed later in life.  Perhaps they were also nightmare teens but with no explanation.

It sounds as though Kitty made a good choice for herself as it turns out. I'm not sure how inevitable it is for an autistic child like yours SproutsMa will turn into the type of youth that Kitty describes. The nursery has flagged it up as an issue but he may be quite different to the way that Kitty's child behaved at that age. One thing that I am aware of is that is very difficult to generalise about autistic people. We are as different from each other as it's possible to imagine.

Kitty, do you think your son picked up his autism genetically?

SproutsMa, do you think you can see autistic traits in yourself or your husband (or in other family members?)

He is 2.5yrs Kitty02 and his behaviours were flagged to us by nursery - we didnt know anything was wrong apart from lack of speech.

He's anything but a nightmare - he's very sweet and well behaved, but obviously thats likely to change.  He has no cousins and we have no friends with children his age and I just think that life must be really pretty horrible if you find it difficult to connect at school and thats the only contact you ever have with peers.

We have about 3 friends and more friends of friends who have an older sibling with autism and then a younger child without, which is what prompted my question really.  Is there any genetic test we could do?

Thanks for responding x

If you want another child and feel that you can support them no matter what they are born with, then I would go for it. It can be nice and comforting for a child to have a sibling, and I do often feel sorry for only children. Yes, the child might be autistic too, but there is no guarantee that this will be the case. I have Asperger's but my younger brother, despite sharing traits, functions completely normally. Although I get annoyed with my brother, I generally like having a sibling. It is reassuring to know that once my parents are gone, I will still have a close relative who will hopefully be around right into my old age.

Nothing is ever certain. Your risks of having another autistic child are higher than average, but there is also a risk your child could have any number of other conditions. It is a gamble but perhaps one worth making if you feel there would be something missing in your life if you did not have another child?