Shocked and need to vent: Have you faced such obvious discrimination from such a large company that should be family friendly? HAMLEYS Toy store

That's good to hear.

Thank you for responding in the spirit of discussion. I am please to report the response from management was actually really great! They DO have a policy and the agent who misinformed me has been retrained to be aware of the access policy. They're even changing the phone system to make it clearer you can get through to a call centre.

Pleased to report a non-venty complaint resulted in the confirmation that:
The agent was wrong in her response. They have refreshed her training so she knows the access policy exsits
They have confirmed children with sensory can be accommodated before store opening by prior arrangement
They are changing the phone systems so the option to speak to the call centre is made clearer.

So getting furious doesn't help. You are absolutely right. But being aware of rights and advocating for those in need do sometimes result in a win. In this case it has. 

Following your analogy I tried to ask about the safety features around the fire - is there a fire guard, are there signs. The response was rather than explaining the safety precautions, they said we can't accommodate the child. Which with clumsy wording is discriminatory. The management has followed up to rectify the original response. They are even changing the phone systems to make it easier to get through to the call centre. They also confirmed what the access policy for children with sensory needs are. Which is before the store opens ot hte public, by prior arrangement.

OH and I had a further written reponse from management. The mistake was at the customer service agent level. She's been refreshed so she knows there IS an access policy. I've updated my post in another comment as I can't work out how to edit the original. 

Thanks for your response. They're not my child. They're a family I support. (It's just as a parent also of an autistic now adult, I wanted to make plans and asked what accessibility options they did have).

I wanted to get all the info and pass it on to mum whose first language is not English, so she could make an informed decision of whether it was suitable or not.

Thank you! This was the point I was trying to make.

I am pleased to report, the member of staff who misinformed me has been refreshed and the phone system has been updated so the option to get through to a human is clearer. The fact they are changing the phone system has really impressed me! Will try and edit the post

Whilst I don’t agree with the response from Hamleys to you, I don’t imagine it was done with any malice.

London shopping is a NIGHTMARE for anyone with autism. Let alone then throw in the extra busyness of it being nearly Christmas, the heating on in shops, the Xmas lights, the noise, the colours everywhere. Then add in Hamleys one of the most craziest places in London to take any child as there’s so much to look at and touch and Play with and so much going on with entertainment as well and just so many other noisy, unpredictable, overstimulating children. Maybe they were just trying to suggest that actually that time and that place isn’t the best mix for a child with autism. I would not dream of going there in the lead up to Christmas as I know I would be totally overwhelmed and panicked, let alone consider taking a child with autism there. 

Also you’re the one that knows your child best. How are Hamleys meant to know what would help your child to manage? Every child with autism has different needs and different tolerances, what may be an issue for one, won’t be for another. I think you need to take on the responsibility of (if you feel you must go to Hamleys at Christmas time) working out what’s best for your child… whether that’s headphones, earplugs, fidget toys, sunglasses, etc. 

good luck if you do decide to brave it! 

yeah but it depends whether they said that or how they said that.

and if they said that then why they said that, perhaps they said it not to mean badly but rather as a protective thing like we cant make it quiet or less busy, they then dont know how damaging or dangerous or harmful it is so they assume its very harmful and dangerous and due to that assumption saying dont bring your child here is protective in nature... like saying dont stick your hand in a fire. but if they did say that then yeah its rather clumsy of them anyway and they could have put it better. 

Caelus said:

no, its just a busy store and they cant just close the door to everyone to make it quiet for your kids. thats just the way it is.

There is a difrence between saying 'no we can't make the store quiet' and saying 'don't bring your autistic son here.'

I think your explanation above is sufficient for me.  I have no desire to attend Hamleys myself during December......let alone be responsible for little humans in my charge whilst there.

Shudder !

Thank you for responding, and thank you for understanding the spirit of my post ie not get fighty = never my desire to provoke such reactions.......but I do like clarity and fair reporting.

Kind regards

Number.

no, its just a busy store and they cant just close the door to everyone to make it quiet for your kids. thats just the way it is.

its not discrimination, you can still take your kids but you will find it is loud and bright and busy or whatever, thats the thing they cannot change for you. by all means take your kids, just dont expect them to shut the door to all their customers for you and lose millions for you to have a quiet shut off time in there for your kids, thats what they are saying. they cant accommodate that.

its just how busy their store is and how they have no control over what customer comes when.

do you know in quiet times for store openings that places promise, thats a false promise too? .... because it tesco tells me i can come in late at night because its quiet then and so will be autism friendly... how can they honestly guaruntee that millions of customers wont just come in at night one time and then make it busy? ... they cant guaruntee that, its out of their control you see? ... therefore its more admirable for a store to admit they cant promise any quiet time as they cant predict when customers come in... they can however point out times they are often quietest, but in some limited opening times stores they might not have a slack quiet time, all their opening times might be optimised for peak busy periods.

Unfortunately, the bigger problem here is an issue of compatibility. 

We live in a society driven by economics. If you have the money, you can shut down Hamleys for the day so no one is allowed to go. A film company might do this. 

There are so many places which one won't be accommodated. A butchers shop might not have anything for someone to eat if they're vegan. Should they be forced to change? A sport might not have accommodation for someone who doesn't like violence and wants to sit somewhere quiet. Do we change how the sport is played? By design, these are incompatible.

I live in a whole society where the Law is actually enforcing a cruelty harmful to me, by a mass overhaul toward unnatural lighting. For some this cause migraines, epileptic fits, can be more dangerous to the circadian rhythm of some, offsetting the endocrine system human system for those who cannot desensitise the same. Most will experience flash blindness and can be harmful to the retina, especially in infants and small children. The legal system is not always on our side. Thankfully, there are organisations all over the EU and in the UK working to help add a clause into the law, such as lightaware.org. But the larger problem is the economics - companies have stopped making more natural sources of light which mimic the sun. So where do you buy a filament bulb?

When I have to go to London for work, I try to avoid staying out too late. I don't go during the winter if I can help it. Travelling from windowless airports to the plane into another airport and arriving in a hotel with no natural light sources at night is exceptionally painful and who can sleep with a migraine. So, for someone like me, the very last place I find enjoyable is an overwhelming shop with too many narrow-band unnatural lights, too much stuff, with the added chaos of all sensory input - smells, sounds (even if turned down), and so on.

We're not just working against a lack of refreshed knowledge on inclusion, but a whole Majority who actually likes surprises and novelty and has desensitised to the point they enjoy overwhelming stimulus, even shock. This is a polarity. And if that majority is keeping a shop from closing its doors, the law probably won't hinder it from existing as is: feeding the economy so the whole nation can flourish. 

These are all part of what is understood in the philosophy of 'might is right', I'm sorry to say. 

Most autistics might not fight these things, as we may have become accustomed to being marginalised - to a small or extensive degree. There's only so much time in the day and I'd rather spend it in nature or at the Library anyway :) 

I understand the excitement of the city and wanting to get out. This is just a different perspective and maybe one you've thought of. But a walk in the woods collecting branches and bits for making holiday wreaths and all kinds of creative projects at home build a lasting sense of connexion and can be much less stressful.

I can't edit work out how to edit my original post, so I thought I would put in the management's response in case anybody does want to take somebody with sensory issues to Hamleys:

There is a call centre, but you must press 2 to talk to somebody about deliveries 
Hamleys accommodate children with sensory issues before store openings. They usually only accommodate one family at a time, but you must prearrange this.

As customer service staff are being refreshed, hopefully booking these times will not be problematic for anybody going forward.

Hiya. I've actually received a response from the management. They DO have a policy for children with sensory needs, but they will refresh customer services so they actually know about it. 

By prettying it up, I just meant there were some sentences before the quote. I'll happy send you the actual text if you're interested in a DM

I guess I'm coming at it from a systemic perspective. They do have to follow the equality act and make "reasonable adjustments. that's just the law. I didn't ask for anything unreasonable, just what policy they had.

In this case, the problem turned out to be customer service staff who will be "refreshed" because they gave the incorrect answer.

I think they've been pretty clear they can't cater for what you need at the moment, so just go to Selfridges again instead. Some shops will, or won't, be suitable.

Getting furious about it won't achieve anything. From the brief bit you've described from their correspondence, it sounds like you're spinning it a bit to make it sound like they're being openly discriminatory. But some stores, maybe due to logistics or whatever else, just won't be a suitable environment for kids with ASD. 

Thank you for telling us that Selfridges are kind, welcoming and amazing in your opinion and for providing a link to their website above.

Please rest assured that I am not accusing you of anything......but your first ever post here DOES follow a very formulaic standard template for bot posts.  I have studied this phenomena.

For what it's worth, if Hamleys told you that their store was entirely unsuitable for people who might easily become overwhelmed or overstimulated.......in December.....then I personally applaud their transparent and direct honesty.  I'd welcome to hear how they "prettied up" that message to you - as you describe it.