Out of School Club

A "ticking timebomb" and aged 8 he threw a chair. What kind of chair and how far? It sounds to me, at this remote distance, as if they are engaged in constructive exclusion.

Getting other parents concerned depends how it was reported back. Did someone get hurt by the chair and tell their parents. Or has the organiser told all the other parents there's an issue.

Meltdowns are characteristic with autism so why are they not providing him an opportunity to get annoyed in private, instead of leaving him in the thick of it?

This isn't an issue for CAMHS - its a matter to raise with the education authority. The out-of-school club took him on knowing his ASC status - if they weren't competent to deal with it that's their liability.

Don't be fobbed off.

Hi, I had a meeting today with out of school and also with the SEN from school. Max has been excluded from out of school for the rest of the week. They feel he is a "ticking timebomb" and out of an obligation to the other children's safety he is excluded. He has lashed out pushed and thrown a chair and children are now scared of him and there have been significant complaints from parents.

He will be eased back into it from next week but evenings only and then decide about the mornings after a week of evenings.

I am seeing someone from CAMHS next Monday but to be honest they have been crap so far, so am not holing my breath. I do think one more incident from max and he will be permanently excluded, so am wondering whether to start to look for alternatives and jump before I'm pushed so to speak.

I just wanted to add that my daughter goes to a holiday club and it's the unstructured aspect of it that she struggles with most of all. It's very noisy a lot of the time and from what I can gather the kids can choose what activity they'd like to do, so it's very free and easy, not very good for someone who needs structure and routine.

I can imagine after a long stressful day at school it would all be too much for your son.

Also echoing what IntenseWorld said, my daughter finds it nearly impossible to speak up if she's struggling in any way, so the staff need to be aware of this if it is the case with your son.

They need to be more proactive in understanding firstly that he has triggers, so to ensure that they avoid them if they can, and secondly what those triggers are so they can learn from it.  They need to be proactive in telling him it's quiet time every so often as he may not ask himself, autistic people struggle asking for help.

It is not necessarily helpful to look for causes immediately connected in time with the meltdown event.

Unfortunately I can only offer my personal theory on this, for want of official back-up.

Meltdowns are a desperation response to a build up of stress. A child may not in any case be able to tell you the reason.

Being on the autistic spectrum means you cannot get clear information from social interaction. NTs can sound out from those around them if there's a misunderstanding. Those on the spectrum have to work things out in isolation, and that process can get pretty intense. Long after (even weeks months or years after) a neurotypical person has got over and forgotten a perceived upset, a person on the spectrum will still be processing this, trying to find an answer. And there may be lots of these unsolveds all competing in your child's head.

Also coping with this on a day to day basis is tiring, especially if there are external stresses, including noise, lots of people moving and talking, too much information coming in.

Meltdowns are an explosive response to the build up of stress. The trigger may be very trivial, just the "last straw".  You can draw your own parallels. If you have a hectic day, with everything going wrong, and you're under pressure to get things done, you will get short tempered and release anger and frustration when it all gets too much, possibly just something small helps you reach that point.

The trouble is your child gets that build up every day. But there are warning signs you and he can look for. And if he gets to recognise these he can ask to go to his quiet place and explode in private, and at least with some dignity.

It is very easy for NT observers just to assume a child is over-sensitive, or makes a fuss about nothing, or over-reacts to a trivial remark or incident. Don't look at the immediate, look at what builds up to this. There may be misunderstrandings which, if he was willing to talk it over with you, you could help him resolve.

Thank you for your response, yes they were fully aware of his diagnosis. I think in some ways the fact that he is seen to be putting the other children "at risk" by his behaviour is the ammunition she is using. It does seem on reflection that the duty of care seems to lie more with the other children than with Max.

I do understand to an extent but it does rather seem to have landed on my lap as a problem I need to resolve. Which is all well and good but how am I supposed to know what has triggered his meltdown? He has got an identified quiet area but I think at the moment he just blows up too quick, his coping strategies are pretty much fight or flight and I mean that literally, if he's not wrecking something, he's climbing a fence or off out of a fire exit.

I thought that after-school providers are supposed to be trained in special needs and support any child with such needs or be at risk of discrimination?  In that case, the provider(s) need(s) to buck their ideas up fast and ensure they are employing staff that can deal with this and following protocol.  No child should be physically able to run off as the place should be secured.  If he gets the right attention things won't escalate to the point he is lashing out in meltdowns.

Did the out of school club organiser know of your son's AS diagnosis at the point of accepting him as a participant.

Because if so they have obligations to him and to you, and should have ensured they understood the potential difficulties. They cannot just use exclusion to somehow shift the problem.

There is a danger too that his behaviour is a response to them not looking after him, in line with his disability, in an appropriate manner. They cannot "constructively" exclude him - set him up to fail.

You say things are working out well at school. So you need to investigate why the after school club is different. Of course it might just be by then that the build up of stress during the day just breaks during after school club. But the reasons kids on the spectrum may do fine at school and then blow up at home are partly down to peer pressure and the need to try to conform to be accepted. I'd reckon that applies to after school club as much as school.

Are his classmates from school at the after school club? If so why would he behave well at school then show himself up in front of his peers at the afterschool club?

Are they providing him with the option of a safe and quiet zone if he feels a meltdown coming on (if he's able to predict that) or when he feels the stress is too much? It seems to me, reading between the lines, maybe wrongly, that they expect him to have his meltdowns in public.

The meltdown may be a last straw response to build ups of stress over the course of the day, rather than there being obvious cues or signals to look for when a meltdown happens. The trigger may be very inobvious because often its about built up stress. All the same the "last straw" for him may be thoughtless handling at the after school club.

So if kids are injured or at risk they say because he throws things during a meltdown - so he's left in the middle of a group of kids when this happens? Or has the option to go somewhere safe and quiet?

You say you are totally at the mercy of this woman who runs the club. Is she, or any of her staff, properly qualified to support a child on the autistic spectrum?

Sounds like she owes you a very full and proper explanation.