aspergers and gender dysmorphia

I think solid counselling from a person trained in gender issues is paramount. As I understand it, normally, the accepted period of counselled support is over a year since the issue was first raised with a healthcare professional.

My own son has received support, but it seems much of his anxieties have evaporated away since he's found a partner willing to accept him for who he is. This has to call into question, how much of his mindset was based on wanting to be accepted, rather than wanting to change his identity or indeed additional issues he may have.

Given that those with ASD frequently can be heard saying that they bend their own personalities to fit into perceived NT behaviors or social situations, this would need to be looked at first surely

As a mother, I'd never want to see any of my children going under the knife. It goes against every protective bone in my body, irrespective of the reason.

In my humble opinion, their are way more issues at play associated with unhappiness and unless those are addressed it makes it difficult to move forward with any clarity. It would be interesting to know how many have a diagnosis of ASD prior to considering a sex change, as opposed to those who's parents suspect it, but the individual has never been assessed.

Speaking only from my own perspective, I can say that since my diagnosis things have made way more sense. If I was in my sons position, it would alter things if I had the benefit of the whole picture and probably several years more life experience. I'm in my 50's now and not all of the choices I made in my 20's would be the choices I'd adhere to today.

Through looking at the videos posted above and through accessing a small amount of limited reading material available, it seems that the need for acceptance is a large part for those on the spectrum. Without minimizing the individuals right to choice, I think it would be better to investigate this aspect further before considering such irrivesable actions.

It's worth considering also that although persons with ASD are 7 times more likely to be gay or transgender their are a considerable amount that are gay or trangender, that don't have ASD.  Little research has been done in this area in my view.

Greater openesss and discussion on the issues faced by those with gender issues and the difficulties experienced by their families would be a positive move forward.

It would be nice to see the NAS open an informative and inciteful page on such issues, so that those considering such action don't feel so isolated and that famlies supporting a member of their family are better informed.

Coogybear.

It isn't clear that the previous posters were entirely happy and supportive of their children's choices. I think it is clear that this is a choice that a significant number of asperger's make but it is not clear that it is always a good choice in the longer run.

There was a documentary on TV a few years ago that followed a number of people in Kings Cross (IIRC) one of whom was desperately unhappy and was saving up for a sex change op. Unfortunately the person was no happier after the op. It didn't fix their unhappiness at all. It seems to me that a lot of people who follow this path are desperately unhappy with something and it is a very obvious thing that one can pick on and blame all of your unhappiness on. If they haven't worked out all of the possible causes of their unhappiness then I can see that being in the wrong body is one way of attributing blame.

As a very unsuccessful teen, I wondered about my sexuality, got called gay endlessly because I didn't fit in, I wished I was different but didn't take it much further. Now, I am entirely glad that I didn't get swept up by the popularity of freedom of choice etc. I have moved on and am entirely comfortable with myself in the body I was born with.

One reason for prejudice and lack of acceptance is that a lot of people are genuinely sceptical about the sense of trying to change a very fundamental part of who we are. This doesn't mean that anybody can be discriminated against or bullied for their choices but equally it means that this is just as valid and defendable point of view as those who have the other point of view. Neither viewpoint is right or wrong.

If I were counselling someone who was considering the options then I would seek out examples of people who are happy with a change and those for whom the change did not resolve anything.

Hi,

I too have a son who's transgender. Currently, he lives in a country where gender ambiguity is accepted with enthusiasm, but I must confess, my biggest fear is that he will be attacked. Like you, we supported his choice, although in this country their is still a good deal of discomfort associated with the concept and indeed the reality. Friend's/aquantences stopped calling by. The hairdresser refused to cut his hair anymore etc, etc. It's almost like Brits are not ready for those who display greater differences. We have a long way to go, but I think the tide is turning.

His unhappiness was so obvious, but when he began to dress as a female this seeemed to evaporate.

To be honest, I don't remember a day when he didn't want to be like a woman. As a single mum i just assumed that his wearing of a teatowel on his head and wrapping it around him like a skirt when he was little, was his attempt at trying to identify with me as a parent figure. I tried to discourage him, but to no avail.

My son is very tall, and although painfully thin, he doesn't really 'pass' in the true sense. He has a partner now and this seems to have made him feel more at ease so I've no idea if he will take it any further, but he still dresses very feminine.

My son is also very intellegent and given the genes I've been blessed with (Im also diagnosed ASD.) i am sure he is on the spectrum, but has no diagnosis.

I only know of one ASD expert that is currently researching Gender identity issues at the moment and that is Sarah Hendrickx

www.youtube.com/watch

Part of what she is promoting currently is happiness and wellbeing and this fits in, very much with the gender issues you discuss.

www.youtube.com/watch

I believe she may also be writing a book centred on these issues.

speakingofdifference.com/.../

I hope these links are helpful, Please keep us posted on any other links/ books you find because I'd like to follow this tread further.

Merry Christmas

Coogybear

Hi Mykidsmom

ignore this, it was wrong...

"There is an email link on the user's profile page. Follow the posters name link in the message header (when you are logged in) and you will see an email link there."

I misunderstood what that link was for, it just emails the profile page to someone. Apologies for any confusion.

Dear daisybee,

I read your post this morning and it resonated so strongly. I registered on this site, just now, with the hope of connecting with you and maybe learning more about your experience.  The similarities between what you wrote and what we are going though is uncanny.  Our son is about to turn 20 and we are struggling mightily to figure things out. I don't know much about how this site works, but if we could connect directly, I would be so grateful. Wishing you Happy Holidays. 

Hi there...I am in canada and my 21 y.o. son sounds sooo much like your son - he 'thought' he was transgender a couple of years ago and was even diagnosed, put on hormone treatment. My husband and I supported him - it was all we knew to do. However, after nearly a year on hormone therapy, dressing as a woman ( he too is not an attractive woman!) he abruptly gave it up saying it was all a mistake. I am in the process of trying to get him tested for aspergers...have thought for many years that he has autism. Our son is also veryyyy intelligent...I thought at times this was the case for his 'oddness' ( for lack of a better term)...he is really a wonderful 'kid'. After much research my conclusion is that the transgender 'obsession' was just that - another one of his obsessions...that ended. Don't get me wrong...we supported his decision, and accepted the psychologists diagnosis of transgender...but always knew that it didn't really fit at all. It is only now starting to make a bit of sense. From what I've read people with aspergers are much more likely to have gender identity issues - who knew?

I'd really like to talk to you if you are still online, get this message. We seem to be dealing with very similar issues. I know your post was a year ago - I hope you will email me...new to this board so don't know if my email shows up...I will check back to this post if I don't hear from you  :)

If he has gone that far as to dress as a woman and consider going out in public, I suspect the issue has got beyond mere confusion. That would take a lot of courage. The fact that he doesn't look convincing surely isn't the issue, its the fact that things have gone that far that he is willing to try.

It is not about whether someone can pass as feminine. It is about the need to identify as feminine.

He needs to find a supportive chaperone. Presumably if he has got this far he either needs a supportive female friend who is used to going out to clubs and social gatherings, or a male who could just be accused of lacking taste in women, but able to carry it off and be a good escort.

It needs to be someone with a car, and someone who can provide a place to change. He shouldn't try walking the streets or using public transport. That really is asking to be attacked. Anyone looking different risks attack. But being escorted safely to a nighclub venue open to fetish or ambiguity would be ok.

If your son has asperger's/autism then he will have had difficulty making such connections, but I would then wonder how things would have got that far. The combination of not looking female and having clumsy appearance and poor social interaction skills would militate against going through with such a thing. 

If things are this far advanced I'm inclined to doubt autism as a factor, because individuals might be less well connected socially to have such objectives.

I recall about 20 years ago having seen a character in Blackpool who regularly went out on the town dressed as a woman, but was 6 foot 6 inches tall, broad built, and worked on a building site by day. He didn't look at all convincing but he still did it.

However you need to distinguish cross-dressing from sexual identity. An astounding number of men like dressing up in women's clothes in private, possibly even unknown to their families. But it isn't a sexual identity thing - it just seems to be something that happens a lot but gets hidden away.

I'm certain there are on-line advice sites on this, and he could also look on gay websites for advice, though that's not implying orientation, simply that's where the likely informed knowledge is to be had. Also there may be a local group or helpline in your area that covers ***, gay and transgender.

However I also know that people on the spectrum get confused, and a GP might just be treating this irresponsibly on a kill or cure basis - encouraging him to go ahead so he realises its impossible. As I say there's no advice to be had on the NAS website, even though such difficulties are more common with people on the spectrum.

He has been dressing as a woman but doesn't have a feminine bone in his body so doesn't look good and we are so worried he may be a victim of bullying and even violence if he goes out dressed as a woman as he is not convincing in the slightest and his psychiatrist (after meeting with him for one hour) feels he is ready to take the next medical step - we are just so worried

Hi markjulips,

I'd recommend contacting our helpline about this - 0808 800 4104, where our advisers can discuss this and signpost to other sources of information. 

It's because Longman that doing that would not fit into the NAS 'Business Model' as that all that NAS is ... a business designed to make money, they only have about 100 million this year and they don't want to go wasting a pesky few grand on stuff like this..or doing other stuff such as actually helping people... conventions, awards, campaigns, meetings, lectures, selling stuff and memberships is what NAS is all about...all of which are ways to shift money outside NAS legally...although I wonder how many directors and people involved in NAS are also involved in these other business interests. Of course they do somethings so they can publicise them in order to keep the cash cow rolling.

Predictably there is nothing about this on the NAS website. Given such issues clearly arise, you would think they could be less coy about going outside the "norm".

The only reference to Sex in their A-Z is one on sex education which accesses quite a thorough exploration of all the issues, except that it is 100% normal. Usefully they do mention sensory issues arising from touching or hugging, and reactions to things like silk or nylon.

They do discuss inappropriate behaviour, but only in respect of a man inappropriately touching a woman or vice versa, and they do discuss the reinforcement of inappropriate actions perceived by the autistic individual as a turn on.

They just never say anything about uncertainty about sexual identity or attraction to the same sex. 

What's the problem here NAS? The evidence, while I agree it is not well publicised, is that people on the spectrum are four or five times more likely to have problems with sexual identity or orientation. So why duck the issue?

What's more important here? Helping people on the spectrum? Or keeping within convention?

Hi there and thank you for taking the time to reply to my post, I had heard ther was a link between gender identity and autism but am aware that labels don't always help the problem.  HIs GP seems to have run with the idea of gender dysmorphia too and it seems hard to stop this steam train - again many thanks for giving me your time

was he having thoughts about this before the counsellor suggested it ?

Is there any way you could (tactfully) discuss the possibility of presenting as female first (hair, clothes, makeup, female pronouns/name etc) to test the waters of female expression without going ahead with the hormones yet? That way no permanent changes will occur and gives room for both of you getting used to it/experimenting before making any more final decisions?

I wish I could get reliable facts about this, but it only gets discussed in non-medical non-conventional websites. It seems to be taboo in the UK to discuss this, even though research has been carried out on it here.

It is alleged that poor empathising and stronger systemmatizing in males on the spectrum makes them less effective with the opposite sex.

But I'd have thought it obvious that social interaction between the sexes depending much more on body language and eye contact than precise spoken language would make it harder to achieve the empathy bit.

Whatever the cause there is a higher proportion of sexual dysmorphia in people on the autistic spectrum, apparently a higher proportion of people with sexual ambiguity and confusion, and a higher proportion of people on the spectrum identifying gay. I've heard it said to be more than for times as high a prevalence than in the NT population.

So, if it affects significant numbers of people on the spectrum, where is this all written down to inform parents and individuals of this important issue?

Oh we're British....oh dear no...we don't talk about such things......stiff upper lip, keep it all in the closet...no no no....naughty...

I cannot authoritatively say that you ought to look at autism as a factor here. But to the best of my knowledge, with what little I can find out, yes.....people on the spectrum are more likely to have sexual identity poroblems.

Whether any GPs or health professionals know anything about it, your guess is as good as mine.....