Good manners?

Pink68 said:

When broaching the subject about why she gets upset I asked her when she was in a good mood and didn't ask about a particular incident, I went about it in a more general way.  I didn't actually ask her tell me why she got upset, just that perhaps if she talked to me about things that bothered her she wouldn't feel so bad, but even that got a 'I hate these conversations' response, then she made it obvious she wasn't going to talk to me at all.

It's just so difficult because if I mention it at all she just gets in a major strop.  It's horrible to see her so upset and I feel so useless.  I understand that she probably CAN'T tell me why, but it doesn't stop me wanting to make everything better.

It doesn't matter how you broach the subject, it's the same subject.

If she's telling you "I hate these conversations" then stop having them with her!

All you are doing is torturing her.

As Longman says, she may not know, herself, why she gets upset, or she may simply not be able to put it into words.

The subject then becomes like a sore wound, and if you keep on prodding and poking at it then of course she's going to get angry.

I'm sure there is something you find so difficult that you would say you can't do it, now imagine if some authority figure kept on demanding (however nicely) that you do that thing, and to know why you can't do it.

How would you feel?

Stranger - 

Longman - When broaching the subject about why she gets upset I asked her when she was in a good mood and didn't ask about a particular incident, I went about it in a more general way.  I didn't actually ask her tell me why she got upset, just that perhaps if she talked to me about things that bothered her she wouldn't feel so bad, but even that got a 'I hate these conversations' response, then she made it obvious she wasn't going to talk to me at all.

It's just so difficult because if I mention it at all she just gets in a major strop.  It's horrible to see her so upset and I feel so useless.  I understand that she probably CAN'T tell me why, but it doesn't stop me wanting to make everything better.

Do you think she knows why she gets upset?

She may have a lot of unresolved issues going round in her head. Amongst them too are feelings of guilt because she keeps being asked why she gets easily upset when she doesn't know the answer.

My own analogy (and I'm mild end so may not be representative, but can only offer my own impression) is that I react to the accumulation of issues - the trigger may be the "last straw" but not necessarily the reason.

So I suspect she worries a lot about why she cannot give you an answer when you ask that question.

But you can think of a parallel situation I'm sure - you must have had really bad days when everything goes wrong, the kids kick up endlessly, the doorbell or the phone keeps ringing when you're trying to clean up mess, and you're already late, and you're letting people down, and.......  well you just lose your bottle and get upset, swear a bit....cry maybe.

And someone asks you what was all that about......

Just your daughter has more issues to process, more anxieties building up, days on end, so she blows up occasionally....... its what its all about.

I guess from her point of view, she's probably been taught that lying is wrong. Therefore, she told the truth.

Did you explain why she has to say thank you and it's the thought (from your mum) that counts?

Thank you all for your input.

I had the conversation with her earlier regarding her reaction to the day out, it went quite well.  I explained that if she comes across as ungrateful it will hurt people's feelings and other stuff along those lines, she took a few seconds to process what I'd told her then said 'Right, I've got that, OK.'

I then went one step too far and tried to broach the subject of how she gets upset and won't talk about it and how we could try to deal with it (see previous post, 'feeling guilty'). She immediately 'shut down' got the sulky look, turned her head away and stopped listening.

And it was all going so well! [slaps wrist] naughty mummy!

I'll back that as well. You asked her if she had a good day. What's that got to do with showing appreciation?

For people who have difficulty interpreting social interaction, including intonation and gesture, there is no routine process by which social conventions are developed. Your daughter cannot pick this up experientally, as can an NT.

To become accepted in the NT social world people have to gauge others' responses, in a trial and error process, because they all pick up on people's adverse reactions if they don't get it right.

Someone on the autistic spectrum cannot register or process that information. It might seem a nuisance but you will need to offer her regular guidance which she may be able to incorporate into daily activity, but it will never come naturally.

Second what crystal12 says.  And I am an adult with Asperger's.  Social stories might show her what NTs expect by way of appreciation.  But perhaps it's best to ensure she will like the place she is being taken before going, as she will tell the truth about how she thought of it.  You cannot fit a round peg into a square hole.  Life as an Aspie is difficult enough.  You could explain to her, that if she doesn't learn the accepted responses now, then she may face poor reactions from others when she is older because no-one explained it to her that lead to her feeling embarrassed and alienated.  If you can appeal to her logic (although as a child she may resist it as emotions are hard to find logic for) she may try to remember.  But that's all it will be, and sharp-eyed NTs may notice her heart is not in her thankyou's.

Hi - no, she isn't "an ungrateful brat", that's NT thinking!  She went out for the day + she didn't enjoy it so she replied honestly.  From an NT pov it made for a difficult situation.  I think you've hit the nail on the head when you refer to your "NT mind" not getting it sometimes.  Perhaps she would enjoy going somewhere she likes with her nan? It's also people closest to her appreciating she is blunt in her responses.  She could be told that whilst it may seem illogical to her, that saying thanks is important to lots of people.  However, if she's like my son, if he hasn't enjoyed something then it'll sound that way when he says it!  Perhaps you could ask her a couple of neutral questions when she nxt comes back with nan/whoever?  Such as "did you go to a cafe?"  Then she can answer and you could follow it up with asking what she ate, for example.  Then you could say "that was nice of nan to get your lunch".