Defiant behaviour ruining our family

Our 9 year old daughter is pre diagnosis for ASD. She is bright and can be incredibly caring but she is having regular moments of complete defiance. She becomes spiteful, cruel and ignores every request for her to follow even basic instructions. We try speaking calmly to her, explaining the reasons we need her to do as she is told, becoming firm and giving clear boundaries and consequences but she ignores it all and refuses to do as she is asked. This can go on for hours and it results in me and husband getting distressed with each other, neglecting our other child and it spirals out of control. I have PTSD and GAD and I find myself wanting to run away rather than face her. She says she doesn't like the person she becomes in those occasions but she can't get out. I sympathize but in those moments she shows no empathy or care for her actions and seems lost. I'm terrified this will tear us all apart. She seems so angry all the time and despite all our efforts to find her support and a way to vent it just comes back as this nasty defiant child who seems to hate us and will do the opposite of everything we ask. She is also starting puberty so that's added a new dimension to. I don't know what to do. Thank you for reading. 

Parents
  • If you have examples of what exactly is happening, it can help create a better understanding of why she's responding the way she is and what she's responding to.

    I want to try and help! As a mum - I know this word gets chucked about quite a bit, but Boundaries aren't something we create with our children when they're under our care, but Rules are. Boundaries are what humans learn to create when they're older to keep themselves from harm, like from a toxic or abusive relationship. 

    Usually when a child appears non-responsive it can be they've become withdrawn which is a human safety mechanism - the Freeze response in Survival mode (fight flight freeze fawn). Something is happening in these exchanges at a fundamental level where Trust and matters of Safety, which are priority, are getting lost. 

    But first it sounds as though you and your husband need to have a support system in place, which can provide an anchor for everyone. It would be his job to mind your PTSD, our children won't have this capacity until they're much older - they're still attempting to navigate the world. This is even harder for Autistic children who are a complete mismatch in society, and often experience a type of sensory assault due to their inability to filter out unwanted signals like non-autistics. We have a different Salience Network and simply need help shielding, but when undiagnosed, we may still be struggling a great deal with an inability to find the words for what we're sensing in a mind that is pure chaos like our ADHD friends. I couldn't find the language or access the words I needed until I was closer to 30 and even at 35 was struggling with identifying emotions (Alexithymia). 

    Empathy is another term that's often misunderstood. In a clinical sense and regarding Autism it means Relating With and Responding as Expected. It's a word that implies a sort of telepathy. Like minded individuals have an immediate 'empathy' for one another, but clashing personalities won't. Now, we can certainly show a generosity of Sympathy or Compassion, and that she can be caring is your clue that a very vulnerable girl is looking for safety in these moments and cannot make sense of what is happening.

    I'd love to be able to help, but I don't have a context here. Sometimes just one perspective shift can alleviate everyone's stress.

    When looking through research, many of us are realising Autistics are driven to resolution, to a type of analysis, while NeuroNormative peers are can be driven and rewarded by social acceptance, even dominance. What this means is that autistic children might come to a full stop in their tracks from confusion or complete overwhelm, more like a little elephant  that won't budge. This is different than defiance. Given that we're driven differently, we're also rewarded differently. 

    A typical problems parents aren't always aware of: The neurological wiring which allows most non-autsitics to be social, loves surprises. But Autistics don't have that same "asymmetrical brain", have a great deal of difficulty with switching tasks, smash-cut edit interruptions, but interruptions in general are like waking a sleepwalker and can feel physically painful. 

    At the end of the day, you're the parent. It may be you need to take more time out to self-care, so you can be grounded for them. With children, very few things are matters of consequence. 

Reply
  • If you have examples of what exactly is happening, it can help create a better understanding of why she's responding the way she is and what she's responding to.

    I want to try and help! As a mum - I know this word gets chucked about quite a bit, but Boundaries aren't something we create with our children when they're under our care, but Rules are. Boundaries are what humans learn to create when they're older to keep themselves from harm, like from a toxic or abusive relationship. 

    Usually when a child appears non-responsive it can be they've become withdrawn which is a human safety mechanism - the Freeze response in Survival mode (fight flight freeze fawn). Something is happening in these exchanges at a fundamental level where Trust and matters of Safety, which are priority, are getting lost. 

    But first it sounds as though you and your husband need to have a support system in place, which can provide an anchor for everyone. It would be his job to mind your PTSD, our children won't have this capacity until they're much older - they're still attempting to navigate the world. This is even harder for Autistic children who are a complete mismatch in society, and often experience a type of sensory assault due to their inability to filter out unwanted signals like non-autistics. We have a different Salience Network and simply need help shielding, but when undiagnosed, we may still be struggling a great deal with an inability to find the words for what we're sensing in a mind that is pure chaos like our ADHD friends. I couldn't find the language or access the words I needed until I was closer to 30 and even at 35 was struggling with identifying emotions (Alexithymia). 

    Empathy is another term that's often misunderstood. In a clinical sense and regarding Autism it means Relating With and Responding as Expected. It's a word that implies a sort of telepathy. Like minded individuals have an immediate 'empathy' for one another, but clashing personalities won't. Now, we can certainly show a generosity of Sympathy or Compassion, and that she can be caring is your clue that a very vulnerable girl is looking for safety in these moments and cannot make sense of what is happening.

    I'd love to be able to help, but I don't have a context here. Sometimes just one perspective shift can alleviate everyone's stress.

    When looking through research, many of us are realising Autistics are driven to resolution, to a type of analysis, while NeuroNormative peers are can be driven and rewarded by social acceptance, even dominance. What this means is that autistic children might come to a full stop in their tracks from confusion or complete overwhelm, more like a little elephant  that won't budge. This is different than defiance. Given that we're driven differently, we're also rewarded differently. 

    A typical problems parents aren't always aware of: The neurological wiring which allows most non-autsitics to be social, loves surprises. But Autistics don't have that same "asymmetrical brain", have a great deal of difficulty with switching tasks, smash-cut edit interruptions, but interruptions in general are like waking a sleepwalker and can feel physically painful. 

    At the end of the day, you're the parent. It may be you need to take more time out to self-care, so you can be grounded for them. With children, very few things are matters of consequence. 

Children
No Data