Published on 12, July, 2020
Everyone in our house is so frustrated and there is no answer in sight. Just wanted to check in with other parents to see what their approach would be.
Son turns 19 in 3 weeks. He is Aspie, intellectually above average but not brilliant, very argumentative, very poor memory, no organisational skills and absolutely cannot or will not travel in a straight line. Generally a good kid and willing worker but has very strong ADD and no impulse control.
Got him through college through endless organisation, research, reviewing work, ensuring completion. It was literally wall to wall arguments and blood sweat and tears. This year he is at Tech doing an IT degree majoring in programming which he is a whizz at.
Decided to ease back this year due to 'He has to grow up and be responsible' and "No-one can live with all this stress and arguing'. Got him a very basic benefit to help support him . Really only about 60 pounds equivalent but we thought it would give him some independence. WE still pay everything bar his transport costs and some of his medical. So phone, tuition, board etc.
Problem number 1, he keeps spending the money on games no matter how many times we tell him not to. About 300 pounds in 3 months. He thinks its his money but have explained we are paying for everything and the money is for the odd lunch, travel, books and some other personal expenses like haircuts.
First mini exam of the year and he fails. No matter how many times we have told him or suggested to him a revision plan and just general organisational habits like looking on google classroom to see if a test is coming up or reading the course outline to find out what and when, he doesn't. He didn't even put is his exam time extension form despite being asked to maybe 10 times. He couldn't be bothered filling it out so he didnt.
So I reluctantly intervene and find all the info myself and get on with applying for him to have extra time etc. And we have come up with a set of rules around. Bedtimes, study, gaming times and conditions and behaviour. He keeps calling me names and arguing about every little thing.
Seem to have semi averted the crisis for now, ie: got him the best chances possible and got him focused on the next few exams.
He doesnt want the rules but we cant live like we are (We cook dinner for him and he wont leave the game long enough to eat it, he wont shower unless made to etc). And he argues about everything all the time, he is too busy to do housework but, if he does 1 to 2 hours school work, he is entitled to 2 - 3 hours gaming minimum. Does nothing for himself, makes my husband late for work most mornings as he wont get up off the couch and go and get dressed.
I have told him that if he cant stick to the rules he has to move out. He says he cant and I am a tyrannical ***hole for giving him rules. He has no self control. If I leave him to his own devices he will fail. He always does because he has no self direction whatsoever. He wants to succeed but he wont make the effort to succeed. I also cant be bothered fighting him any more or spending my entire life working for him but I know he wont move out unless I get the police and force him out and I couldnt go that far.
On the other hand, the entire family is tired of him treating us badly, always being so demanding and forcing the rest of us to dance to his tune. My husband is 65 in 2 months and wants to retire but wont be able to while we are still paying everything for him. We don't live in the UK and there are no free services for him. I keep wondering whether he needs a mentor or counselling or whether this is just the way he will always be and that he will never likely move out or even remain home but live independently. Or whether we just go all tough love on him.
Suggestions anyone? Either as parents or as a non neuro typical who has gone through this themselves.
How do we move him towards independence positively? How much should we and when should we intervene? As a family, what should we "put up with' and I know that is a horrid thing to say because he does have a disability but the whole family is tired of constant drama. We love him and we want the best for him but we are not sure what we should do at this stage.
We are trying to get him a license but he isnt particularly motivated to do that. He will go with us to practice driving but he likes being picked up and dropped off every day. Its convenient and free. He wont get his license unless we make it happen.
Try to talk at university to someone to assign him a key person or a fellow student mentor, but from his domain,to help him organize his learning journey.Does he have a PLSP?I really need a key person in my course to ask me how is it going and to be honest to help organize my approach toward my project in order to achieve my own goals which are way beyond what my tutors ask , and they don't seem to understand that especially I haven't gone through official diagnosis yet.I am 26 w and realized this year maybe is sth wrong with me not with the world around me, and identified I might have actually been all my life ASC as I have actually always struggled socially to be accepted. I have struggled all year to get out of the bad stress i am putting myself through by asking from myself great demands and in the same time wanting to learn 12 new skills, and I really find it difficult to just get myself and my thinking organized and align my actions for success,especially i have a clear idea in my head how I want the project to look like, and my tutor encourages me to be mediocre and I don't want to be like that. He might have some frustrations along his learning journey that he manifests at home , where he feels safe. Psychological counseling, together with a key person in his degree should help him succeed, I am telling you what I feel are my needs now as a stuck student.
I find it interesting he is doing programming, I like programming too, and that requires really good abstract reasoning and through definition, autists are not good at it (that's why they have dismissed for now a diagnosis at uni, I scored well in the abstract reasoning test).
'Spectrum' people are all different. I have high abstract reasoning and my son tests high too.My family is also creative and practical and he is keen on making almost anything and designing it himself but again you'll hear a lot about Aspies not being creative. So I think putting labels on doesnt help that much. Having a diagnosis may help but you may not find out all that much.
Push for the diagnosis if there is some practical advantage to it, like additional support for example.
I imagine your tutor is telling you to do less because he/she is being pragmatic. You only have so much time and education these days is a game.
What I say to my son is 'Focus on the 90%" - the nice to haves and bells and whistles don't matter. Many of us want to do things 'our way' and do our best work every time but many of the people who pass out of Uni, do the minimum. And you cant fault them, they are being utterly pragmatic. I did well academically back in the day and was a perfectionist about my work. It was hard work and it didnt really affect anything in terms of getting a job etc. Maybe it opened some doors but it wasnt a deciding factor. Having a degree was important but that's about it. I later came to understand that having to do well was more about me and my ego or insecurities than anything. My advice is that you maybe 'reframe' your situation. Ask yourself, Why am I here? What do I need to achieve? Can I do less? Can I take longer to complete my studies? etc. Uni is harder for non neurotypicals.
It will be easier to follow your tutors suggestions if you see it as a set of hoops to step through and your behaviour as something that needs to fit the strategy of the game/course.
I dont know if you recognise yourself in any of this but my son goes over the top often (too much effort spent for the value of the piece of work), goes haring off in the wrong direction often, will ignore teachers very clear advice and reinvent the wheel, will have to throw out days of work and restart again as he didnt read the assessment standard or assignment precis or just didnt listen. And he will do these things over and over. I look at the huge amount of work and commitment that goes in and I know that if he could apply that effort 'in a straight line' then he would be so far on top of the pile there'd be no-one behind him.
So the biggest thing I try and bring him back to is what is he trying to achieve and what are the behaviours that will define his success. Aspies can fake it but they often need to learn it from someone else as it doesnt come naturally. So focus on the strategy, define the behaviours that will get you there, change your behaviours (modelling them on someone who does have successful behaviours in that context) and then apply discipline, use the advisor to push you and remind you. Pull yourself up from time to time and ask yourself, am I achieving my goals this week/month?
What I am hoping for from my son and his mentor/advisor is not so much technical knowledge but someone who will show him what it takes to be successful (eg: Using all the tools and supports and habits regularly)and also, like your own tutor, tell him when to rein it in and move on to the next thing.
None of this may apply to you but if you are struggling, remember:
You dont have to give 100% all the time, work smarter (More successfully) not harder and change your thinking.
If it takes you longer, that isnt failure, if you ease off a bit that isnt wrong that may just be practical.
Stop trying to do more than you need to and concentrate instead on the organisational and social behaviours that are going to help you realise your goals.
And if none of this applies to you just ignore me ....
Thanks so much for your advice,finding myself entirely in the same situation as your son,except i'm a mother myself so I got housework for 3 people on top.
This time I'll base on my old skill- programming.They keep discouraging me from programming shapes,but that's because they think i learn a new skill,i actually won contests for it in C++ programming when i was 12. My mentor said to be proactive and she seemed quite impressed with my work as well, so i'm doing my best to finish as many components i can until next Thursday so I can show my course leader.I already have made 6 scripts which already create almost all of the building.I'll add another cool 2 and they should be happy with my spaceship (planned for it to be called homeostasis and have 5 PSS design statements as plans for the future society) otherwise i can show him how to play with it until he can bake a solution himself,it's all fully adaptative.
The trouble is it's not easy to talk to this guy, he looks like the photo definition of an angry face and i don't understand what he talks,he doesn't seem to speak what he means.I tried doing what he says, and then he explained to me I got it all wrong, he talks too philosophical for me .I had to redo the assignment 3 times and took me 2 months for a 1500 words report which i normally do in 2 days if not directed wrong by tutors.In undergraduate I completely avoided the crits went for few tutorials and just sent at the end the projects.
I have submitted some work this year the trouble is I didn't hand in up the first term, I had to donate to my group my initially planned individual design(i presented the idea in the group and they didn't like it,so i thought ill keep it for part 2 of the project then). All my group made stuff that were completely non architectural and we are supposed to study commercial architecture. So i have even one more project to do on top of this one because of the group being fussy for getting them a good B with my ugly design.
Thanks for clarifying.
I say you guys are Broken if you can’t understand the deeper reasons for being here
The idiots are the NTs that want to bring him down to thier plane of existence. Arguing and competing - that’s what your culture is. One big Rat Race. Stop trying to make him into a rat. He/We are Far bigger than trying to keep up with the Jones’s.
My mind understands the furthest advancements in science today. I was born with that understanding - it’s deep in my make up.
Ever since I was a child I have had pathetic teachers telling me it’s not possible to understand things like that. Because they don’t and they’re adults they must know better than the Autist. That’s simply wrong. My observations in the scientific world were at least 30 years ahead of the scientific community of teachers and lecturers. They still live in a Newtonian world of cause and effect. That idea is hundreds of years old but it’s takem NTs that long to understand it.
well - I knew it was wrong g as a child. I could see the Schrödinger Cat situation as an infant.
That means - as I child I could see the deepest understandings of the universe and the adults around me - instead of nurturing that - they saw me as a threat and tried to bring me down to thier shallow existence of - no real understanding. Sad
You describe him as broken.
He’ll feel that - then he’ll reflect that back to you which will result in the problems you describe.
I'm not quite sure I follow what you are saying. I didn't think I was comparing him to idiots more just how in the context, his processing and behaviour can be a problem for him.
My point is that education is geared up to neurotypicals. That is what the spectrum person is faced with. They have to learn to navigate the environment, the structural issues, the personalities and the prejudices and still get what they need to succeed. If I am comparing him to NTs, it is with this in mind. I'm not quite sure where double empathy comes in. My comment about ' the things he does that are unsuccessful' was more to indicate how aspies function differently and why this is particularly an issue for them in higher education where your time is limited and there are a series of hoops that need to be jumped through.
You guys are causing a double empathy problem for your poor boy - I feel sorry for him. You NEED to wake up to the damage you’re causing him by comparing him to idiots
Because he is 4 times more intellectual than they are. I teach kids - ASD & NT
An ASD child has more fluid intellect than an NT adult. He will be feeling like a genius surrounded by Morons! NTs are pretty much moronic. IQs of under 95 etc. Pish
I totally understand. My son has experienced this as well. Originally he wanted to product design and he was doing quite well at it, which also encompassed drawing and architecture. Then his teacher changed and he experienced exactly what you are talking about. Total mismatches in understanding, unclear communication and many hours of mis -starts and thrown away work. By the end of the year, we were so worn out and stressed I agreed that as it was the same teacher in final year, he should just dump it and continue on with a view to systems integration. Sadly just before the start of the new school year, he got his external marks back and got a merit whereas the teacher had had him almost failing all year.
It was a bit of a blow but pragmatism won out. So he went with what was easiest to pass and would get him into the course he wanted. Now however, he has a mixture of teacher/tutors, some awesome and some poor so he is doing what you suggested and finding people who can explain stuff to him. He has learnt two valuable lessons as well. Let the person talk for a reasonable amount of time and listen, if you are not getting it. Politely say, I cant grasp what you are telling me, can you explain it to me in a different way or even, in this way for example. Even in maths, my son needs to know 'why he is doing it' and not just how to do it. So he tells people that. He is regularly thrown for a loop by language, like a maths problem in word form so where permissible (if he is in a room on his own), he will ask the invigilator? to read the question for him using simpler of similar but different words. It doesn't always help but sometimes it does.
Lazy teachers will avoid him and avoid his questions and sometimes get frustrated with him. So he has now learnt to be politely dogged about it. If he cant get his question answered any other way, he will chase the teacher repeatedly until he gets what he wants. Before he would allow them to fob him off. Fortunately so far this year, none of the teachers are quite as bad as the one he had at school so its working ok and hopefully will work better now that he has his advisor.
I would try and get another tutor if he you find him intimidating. See if you can see someone about it if its possible. Just tell them that you and he? just aren't on the same wavelength and you are not able to achieve a successful working relationship. Tell them, you have problem with language and feel a bit intimidated when you have to say you don't understand. I imagine having a diagnosis would help as people would be inclined to take it more seriously. Also, push the idea that Aspies are all different because they really are, my sons Aspie friend sings barbershop and goes to international competitions but cant hold a conversation past the first sentence so I think they shouldn't be deciding what you are and aren't based on one aspect. You can have abstract reasoning and be Aspie.
Last thing, I'd say is 2 things, there are a fair few lazy people out there so you need to again be pragmatic about either carrying the groups work or going with the flow. Decide what you want and accept the less than ideal situation..
Lastly, my son is 'mindblind' which means that he will do what he wants to and teachers often say he doesn't do what they tell him. In his mind, he knows the perfect way and he wont even see what they are trying to tell him. Its not so much deliberately oppositional as just a natural part of his Aspie processing so you should maybe consider whether this is part of your communication problems with your tutor. Look up 'mindblindness' and Aspergers to understand it better.
Good luck