When to pull the cord? Parents of ADHD/ Aspie 19 yo need help transitioning him to independence

Thanks for clarifying.   

I say you guys are Broken if you can’t understand the deeper reasons for being here 

The idiots are the NTs that want to bring him down to thier plane of existence. Arguing and competing - that’s what your culture is. One big Rat Race. Stop trying to make him into a rat. He/We are Far bigger than trying to keep up with the Jones’s. 

My mind understands the furthest advancements in science today. I was born with that understanding - it’s deep in my make up. 

Ever since I was a child I have had pathetic teachers telling me it’s not possible to understand things like that. Because they don’t and they’re adults they must know better than the Autist. That’s simply wrong. My observations in the scientific world were at least 30 years ahead of the scientific community of teachers and lecturers. They still live in a Newtonian world of cause and effect. That idea is hundreds of years old but it’s takem NTs that long to understand it.

well - I knew it was wrong g as a child. I could see the Schrödinger Cat situation as an infant. 

That means - as I child I could see the deepest understandings of the universe and the adults around me - instead of nurturing that - they saw me as a threat and tried to bring me down to thier shallow existence of - no real understanding. Sad 

You describe him as broken. 

He’ll feel that - then he’ll reflect that back to you which will result in the problems you describe. 

I'm not quite sure I follow what you are saying.  I didn't think I was comparing him to idiots more just how in the context, his processing and behaviour can be a problem for him. 

My point is that education is geared up to neurotypicals.  That is what the spectrum person is faced with.  They have to learn to navigate the environment, the structural issues, the personalities and the prejudices and still get what they need to succeed. If I am comparing him to NTs, it is with this in mind.  I'm not quite sure where double empathy comes in.  My comment about ' the things he does that are unsuccessful' was more to indicate how aspies function differently  and why this is particularly an issue for them in higher education where your time is limited and there are a series of hoops that need to be jumped through.

You guys are causing a double empathy problem for your poor boy - I feel sorry for him. You NEED to wake up to the damage you’re causing him by comparing him to idiots

Because he is 4 times more intellectual than they are. I teach kids - ASD & NT 

An ASD child has more fluid intellect than an NT adult. He will be feeling like a genius surrounded by Morons! NTs are pretty much moronic. IQs of under 95 etc. Pish

I totally understand.  My son has experienced this as well.  Originally he wanted to product design and he was doing quite well at it, which also encompassed drawing and architecture.  Then his teacher changed and he experienced exactly what you are talking about.  Total mismatches in understanding, unclear communication and many hours of mis -starts and thrown away work.  By the end of the year, we were so worn out and stressed I agreed that as it was the same teacher in final year, he should just dump it and continue on with a view to systems integration.    Sadly just before the start of the new school year, he got his external marks back and got a merit whereas the teacher had had him almost failing all year.

It was a bit of a blow but pragmatism won out.  So he went with what was easiest to pass and would get him into the course he wanted.  Now however, he has a mixture of teacher/tutors, some awesome and some poor so he is doing what you suggested and finding people who can explain stuff to him.  He has learnt two valuable lessons as well.  Let the person talk for a reasonable amount of time and listen, if you are not getting it.  Politely say, I cant grasp what you are telling me, can you explain it to me in a different way or even, in this way for example.  Even in maths, my son needs to know 'why he is doing it' and not just how to do it.  So he tells people that.  He is regularly thrown for a loop by language, like a maths problem in word form so where permissible (if he is in a room on his own), he will ask the invigilator? to read the question for him using simpler of similar but different words.  It doesn't always help but sometimes it does.

Lazy teachers will avoid him and avoid his questions and sometimes get frustrated with him.  So he has now learnt to be politely dogged about it.  If he cant get his question answered any other way, he will chase the teacher repeatedly until he gets what he wants.  Before he would allow them to fob him off.  Fortunately so far this year, none of the teachers are quite as bad as the one he had at school so its working ok and hopefully will work better now that he has his advisor.

I would try and get another tutor if he you find him intimidating.  See if you can see someone about it if its possible.  Just tell them that you and he? just aren't on the same wavelength and you are not able to achieve a successful working relationship.  Tell them, you have problem with language and feel a bit intimidated when you have to say you don't understand.  I imagine having a diagnosis would help as people would be inclined to take it more seriously.  Also, push the idea that Aspies are all different because they really are, my sons Aspie friend sings barbershop and goes to international competitions but cant hold a conversation past the first sentence so I think they shouldn't be deciding what you are and aren't based on one aspect.  You can have abstract reasoning and be Aspie.

Last thing, I'd say is 2 things, there are a fair few lazy people out there so you need to again be pragmatic about either carrying the groups work or going with the flow.  Decide what you want and accept the less than ideal situation.. 

Lastly, my son is 'mindblind' which means that he will do what he wants to and teachers often say he doesn't do what they tell him.  In his mind, he knows the perfect way and he wont even see what they are trying to tell him.  Its not so much deliberately oppositional as just a natural part of his Aspie processing so you should maybe consider whether this is part of your communication problems with your tutor.  Look up 'mindblindness' and Aspergers to understand it better.  

Good luck

Thanks so much for your advice,finding myself entirely in the same situation as your son,except i'm a mother myself so I got housework for 3 people  on top.

This time I'll base on my old skill- programming.They keep discouraging me from programming shapes,but that's because they think i learn a new skill,i actually won contests for it in C++ programming when i was 12. My mentor said to be proactive and she seemed quite impressed with my work as well, so i'm doing my best to finish as many components i can until next Thursday so I can show my course leader.I already have made 6 scripts which already create almost all of the building.I'll add another cool 2 and they should be happy with my spaceship (planned for it  to be called homeostasis and have 5 PSS design statements as plans for the future society) otherwise i can show him how to play with it until he can bake a solution himself,it's all fully adaptative.

The trouble is it's not easy to talk to this guy, he looks like the photo definition of an angry face and i don't understand what he talks,he doesn't seem to speak what he means.I tried doing what he says, and then he explained to me I got it all wrong, he talks too philosophical for me .I had to redo the assignment 3 times and took me 2 months for a 1500 words report which i normally do in 2 days if not directed wrong by tutors.In undergraduate I completely avoided the crits went for few tutorials and just sent at the end the projects.

I have submitted some work this year the trouble is I didn't hand in  up the first term, I had to donate to my group my initially planned  individual design(i presented the idea in the group and they didn't like it,so i thought ill keep it for part 2 of the project then). All my group made stuff that were completely non architectural and we are supposed to study commercial architecture. So i have even one more project to do on top of this one because of the group being fussy for getting them a good B with my ugly design.

'Spectrum' people are all different.  I have high abstract reasoning and my son tests high too.My family is also creative and practical and he is keen on making almost anything and designing it himself but again you'll hear a lot about Aspies not being creative.  So I think putting labels on doesnt help that much.  Having a diagnosis may help but you may not find out all that much.  

Push for the diagnosis if there is some practical advantage to it, like additional support for example.  

I imagine your tutor is telling you to do less because he/she is being pragmatic. You only have so much time and education these days is a game.  

What I  say to my son is 'Focus on the 90%" - the nice to haves and bells and whistles don't matter.  Many of us want to do things 'our way' and do our best work every time but many of the people who pass out of Uni, do the minimum.   And you cant fault them, they are being utterly pragmatic.  I did well academically back in the day and was a perfectionist about my work.  It was hard work and it didnt really affect anything in terms of getting a job etc.  Maybe it opened some doors but it wasnt a deciding factor.  Having a degree was important but that's about it.  I later came to understand that having to do well was more about me and my ego or insecurities than anything.  My advice is that you maybe 'reframe' your situation.  Ask yourself, Why am I here?  What do I need to achieve?  Can I do less?  Can I take longer to complete my studies?  etc.  Uni is harder for non neurotypicals.

It will be easier to follow your tutors suggestions if you see it as a set of hoops to step through and your behaviour as something that needs to fit the strategy of the game/course.

I dont know if you recognise yourself in any of this but my son goes over the top often (too much effort spent for the value of the piece of work), goes haring off in the wrong direction often, will ignore teachers very clear advice and reinvent the wheel, will have to throw out days of work and restart again as he didnt read the assessment standard or assignment precis or just didnt listen.  And he will do these things over and over.  I look at the huge amount of work and commitment that goes in and I know that if he could apply that effort 'in a straight line' then he would be so far on top of the pile there'd be no-one behind him.

So the biggest thing I try and bring him back to is what is he trying to achieve and what are the behaviours that will define his success.  Aspies can fake it but they often need to learn it from someone else as it doesnt come naturally.  So focus on the strategy, define the behaviours that will get you there, change your behaviours (modelling them on someone who does have successful behaviours in that context) and then apply discipline, use the advisor to push you and remind you.  Pull yourself up from time to time and ask yourself, am I achieving my goals this week/month?

What I am hoping for from my son and his mentor/advisor is not so much technical knowledge but someone who will show him what it takes to be successful (eg:  Using all the tools and supports and habits regularly)and also, like your own tutor, tell him when to rein it in and move on to the next thing.

None of this may apply to you but if you are struggling, remember:

You dont have to give 100% all the time, work smarter (More successfully) not harder and change your thinking. 

If it takes you longer, that isnt failure, if you ease off a bit that isnt wrong that may just be practical.  

Stop trying to do more than you need to and concentrate instead on the organisational and social behaviours that are going to help you realise your goals.

And if none of this applies to you just ignore me ....

Try to talk at university to someone to assign him a key person or a fellow student mentor, but from his domain,to help him organize his learning journey.Does he have a PLSP?I really need a key person in my course to ask me how is it going and to be honest to help organize my approach toward my project in order to achieve my own goals which are way beyond what my tutors ask , and they don't seem to understand that especially I haven't gone through official diagnosis yet.I  am 26 w and realized this year maybe is sth wrong with me not with the world around me, and identified I might have actually been all my life ASC as I have actually always struggled socially to be accepted. I have struggled all year to get out of the bad stress i am putting myself through by asking from myself great demands and in the same time wanting to learn 12 new skills, and I really find it difficult to just get myself and my thinking organized and align my actions for success,especially i have a clear idea in my head how I want the project to look like, and my tutor encourages me to be mediocre and I don't want to be like that. He might have some frustrations along his learning journey that he manifests at home , where he feels safe. Psychological counseling, together with a key person in his degree should help him succeed, I am telling you what I feel are my needs now as a stuck student.

I find it interesting he is doing programming, I like programming too, and that requires really good abstract reasoning and through definition, autists are not good at it (that's why they have dismissed for now a diagnosis at uni, I scored well in the abstract reasoning test).

At least they Can do stuff way better than non aspies ever can. Aspies are in another league when it comes to making change. They mould the world You live in. 

Awesome - hope it all continues to improve.   Cutting out all the shouting and making the home life calmer will subconsciously help him too.   Having less things to worry about will help him concentrate on the important stuff. 

Hi all who shared their invaluable insights.  Suprisingly good outcomes so far.  

Having ranted for 3 days about our controlling him etc etc, he came round and said, I was messing around with my friends and haven't been working enough.  (Very unusual for him to admit this).  So he has been trying harder.  He's got through one subject with a 54% average to date, has an exam to go on the ever boring Info Security but so far is doing ok and has had another maths test which we think he may have passed.  Then of course, he totally wowed us with 97% on a particular systems integration assignment.  And this is the Aspie problem in a nutshell, good when they're good and not apt to try when they're not.  But at this stage, he is trying and its looking like the only subject that is likely for a resit is maths so we have managed to pull it back from the brink.

The Tech has assigned him a free mentor that has an IT/Maths background so they are meeting and skyping twice a week to keep him on track and help him with anything that he is struggling to understand.  Meanwhile the extra time in exams has helped a bit too.  And it means that we don't particularly have to stick our nose into what he is doing as the support staff will let us know as and when the mentor flags a problem.  So everybody is happier all round.

So thank you all for your advice.  For those who are on the spectrum, its worth hearing about the slower rate of maturity amongst aspies etc and getting some context around it and also thank you parents of those on the spectrum for your helpful take on why our kids act they way they do and whether or not its a big deal.

Cheers

Yes, you seem to have a good plan in place, of handing things to him, the work experience. I am encouraging my daughter to do some chores. It is slow and you just have to hope it will work out. :)

I'm curious as to what you mean by

Roswell said:

I think technology and Autism may go hand in hand.

The internet and the tech that goes with it - was invented by autistics. So was 

art

science 

religion 

Philosophy 

calculus 

Relativity 

Quantum theory

Electricity 

Etc 

etc 

See this is interesting. I think technology and Autism may go hand in hand. It's noteworthy that the diagnosis of Autism has exploded in the past decade and we're now living in a computerized era like never before.

Now, probably close to that but as a child until he was maybe 11 or 12 much less.  He was always moving so early years were all out and about and then maybe  2 hours of TV max.  However I totally agree, my neuro typical daughter got apple gear for Christmas a year ago and I cannot get her to give it up and get on with anything else.  I wish I had never caved.  It definitely affects their development.  Socially, at school, polite interaction at home and otherwise.

I have had a thought for a while especially during the excruciating last years of A level that the best solution may be to try and get him a job for a year or two so he can learn some life skills and 'catch up' with his peers.  My husband was really wed to the idea that he was capable enough to do the course but he is an intellectual type and not a pragmatist.  Absolutely my son can do the work intellectually but that is very different from having the behaviours and skills to do the course.

It was good to here spectrum adults chipping in here and to have it confirmed that they are late developers.  My question has always been, is this really going to get any better or am I just expecting too much?  So its good to know it is probably all part of the process.

We are very lucky that my son doesnt have emotional or anxiety issues as one poster said -us 'aspies' are tougher emotionally and that is certainly true of some atypicals?  But I think your psychologist has hit the nail on the head, they are keeping themselves safe, a bit of denial, a bit of laziness perhaps but definitely a safe space. 

What I am going to do is get him a mentor and if it takes twice a week during semesters we'll find a way to pay.  However I am not fully convinced this will work as his teachers tell me he is very willing but they have trouble getting him to do what they tell him.  Its not a complexity issue, he either will not do what he is told or simply cannot 'walk in a straight line'.  So that is our first port of call.  If that doesnt work, we might gear down to 3 subjects per semester and see how that goes.  My husband has a large bank as a client and he works with their IT people a lot, they have initiatives to work with more aspies and internships for young ones.  Usually a bit further along in their studies but it could be a possibility he could get some unpaid experince.

Otherwise its bombard the employment service to get him work of some kind so he can learn some independence and get confident in his own ability to cope and then back to studying.  We have youth unemployment here of 30% so he has never been able to get any kind of job and obviously isnt best suited to fast food.  But if I pushed it with the employment service I think they could get him onto one of their subsidised work schemes.

In the meantime, we are going to start handing over more and more things to him bit by bit.  Like dealing with the Dr on his own, ordering his prescription and dealing with the employment service etc.  There will be disasters ahead but we have to lure him out of the 8 year old mindset safety net.

Your daughters situation is clearly more complex.  First of all, her mental health has to be number one but you still have to put some stuff in place so she can start to progress independently.  Baby steps like doing some chores, filling in her own application forms or whatever is appropriate, just things that make her feel more confident about her ability to handle things bit by bit.

Its a difficult one because the ADD kids in particular do tend to be lazy and hedonistic.  If it feels good do it and if it doesnt dont.  You kind of have to get them out of that world view.  My son is remarkably mature in many ways.  I have always said to him life isnt fair, in fact it often sucks but we all have to play the game or you end up working on the roads in the pouring rain.   So I kind of depersonalise the drudgery of it and concentrate my efforts on him developing strategies to work at the 'game'. 

I imagine with your daughter a different school could help but that's not an option for everyone.  My neurotypical daughter went through the same and her confidence was totally on the floor.  I put her in a much more inclusive and values driven school and she has blossomed.  Now that she has started college I am forcing her to do speech and drama (I personally hate that kind of stuff) and she doesnt like it much.  But I am now seeing a more confident kid.  There's no more little querulous mouse when answering the phone and she tells me what she thinks much more often and smiles a lot more.  So school and in particular, the kids at the school, can make a big difference.  She now has various friends and costs me a fortune with her social calendar.

As for gaming, I think they find that fun and they have no understanding of what it really means to do the job. They picture themselves sitting at home designing stuff.   I do wonder whether Aspie kids  are attracted to it because it is something creative they can do when they are not neurotypically creative.  Aspies love to find a solution and do something useful.  If its creative and glorious, all the better.  They cant draw or write, maybe cant handle tools but they can design.  So I think this is the real attraction.