Neuro Typicals and communication problems

YF,

How do you work out that the other person has communication problems or other issues? Doesn't that take the sort of insight that we lack? I usually haven't a clue what mental state the other person is in unless I have known them for a long time and even then I'm pretty useless. I think I am learning to set my expectations at a pretty low level, if I manage to communicate the basics then anything on top of that is a bonus.

I try not to be judgmental about how other people treat me because I really think that i am quite unable to judge their intent or engagement with me. I find that most people are nice and decent human beings and worth the benefit of the doubt until you know them really well. A lot of people are not very bright so they do silly things. It isn't their fault and I set my expectations accordingly.

CC, I concur about the questions thing. I have incited fury and even the throwing of stuff around the office because I was unable to judge when I had asked too many questions and when my questions were perceived as threatening or undermining when actually all I wanted was some sensible answers.

I think part of the problem might be mirror neurons, which apparently neurotypicals have more of.

Mirror neurons fire equally if a persons sees someone else doing something, or does it themselves.  Arguably this is the basis for nt's being able to understand each other's emotions and actions: when they see someone doing something they feel as if they are doing it themselves.  So if they see someone being disgusted by eating something, they 'know' and actually experience what that feels like. 

Of course the nt view is anyone who has less of these is going to be crippled.

When I think about it though, I think this can have some drawbacks as an 'empathy' system. 

For a start, it's only going to give you an accurate diagnosis of other's emotions and intentions if they have the same intentions and emotions you would have.

Secondly, imagine two people with lots of mirror neurones enter a room. One is feeling angry, one is feeling sad. Both would 'feel' the other's emotions, surely leading to a tendency to move towards each other's emotions, and end up feeling both the same.  So in this case the mirror neurones might not work to help them understand each other's starting emotions, instead they might work to cause nt's to agree on an emotion to share.

If an nt and an autie (with different levels of mirror neurones) meet, then the nt might start to 'equalise' emotionally, and realise that the autie is not doing this: perhaps the basis for nt's seeing auties as self-centred/emotionally cold?

Also, auties can develop ways of conciously understanding and reacting to other's emotions and intentions.  Nt's don't 'need' to do this, so there's potential for auties to actually exceed nt's in concious understanding.

So mirror neurones might actually impede someone in understanding someone who is different to them.

Here's a link for anyone who wants to read more.  Of course the article (and especially the one on autism and mirror neurones it links to) assume that nt levels of mirror neurones are perfect and anything less must be a deficit... http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct05/mirror.aspx

good words of encouragement-cool!

When i come across ''here to help'' what i get in return 9 times out 0f 10 is- ''let us patronise and belittle you and treat you as an underdog!''  or '' lets contradict you and twist what you say!'' But with the contradiction one-it may happen to everybody, but it does make people with aspergers struggle-It's a nightmare.

Often, when I am seeking clarity, I ask questions. I then get accused of some awful things - I'm being vexatious, rude, provocative, I get funny looks, sneers and contemptuous silence, what I don't get is answers - and I never ask difficult questions.

I concluded long ago that it is NTs who are mired in their mutually supportive unsanity. An old piece of wisdom that I have observed the truth of is 'where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise'. In modern parlance (ignorspeak) go with the flow, dude.

Our struggles to get through a day cannot be understood or recognised by NTs. I get sick of seeing the slogan 'Here to Help' when they mean 'here to be as unhelpful as we can possibly be', because I measure people by what they do, never by what they say.

Interestingly, on this website, we can only judge people by what they say, and yet I take great comfort in understanding others, such as you for instance, and knowing that in my turn, I'll be understood. NTs are incredibly frightened by truth and honesty, they can even get offended about them, and yet we know that there's absolutely nothing to be scared of in either. Weird.

I think we all recognise that our 'mental health problems' are the effect of trying to live in an obscure world that is the anithesis of the one we live in. Our minds play hell with us when we're trying to understand, in an information vacuum.

In their world, acceptable behaviours seem to centre around how much harm they can do to other people in a day, and that's all I've come to expect of them. I can't trust them, I certainly can't believe them because there is no deliberate lie that is beyond them, and they're people who laugh during You've Been Framed because they enjoy seeing other people get hurt.

They're nuts, frankly, and both their behaviour and their communications are born of this fact. Trying to interact under their rules is just exhausting, but they are incapable of understanding why. Whilst we're running in mental circles trying to understand their mentality, they don't waste a nano-secong trying to understand anyone at all, let alone us! Sun Oblivious, ignorant...

Keep the faith, spread the word, come here for verbal cuddles.

Trust me, it isn't you

Hi,

Exactly- i couldn't agree more. You've also hit the nail on the head about mind games- the world is full of people with mind games-making it even harder for people with aspergers to cope with- we do seem to be put under an awful lot more strain due to having to try and cope with ourselves and other peoples social foibles-which can put us under phenominal pressure.

I've been watching the latest series of Downton Abbey, and while trying not to cause a hi-jack of this thread, I cannot help but comment on something similar to what you discuss here.

A lot of Downton Abbey sub-themes have been about misunderstandings. The scriptwriters seem to have a fixation about these little puzzles - everyone playing mind games.

The one that has my curiosity at the moment is what they are doing to Mr Barrow - is this just suddenly out of the blue just because he is gay? He is getting visibly paranoid as everyone seems to be trying to avoid him or exclude him. Where is this going?

You are right of course that most people have some sort of social foible, and some are quite severe. The neurotypical world is far from easy, which is one of the reasons, I suspect, that they don't understand the fuss made about being autistic. Its the dear old spectrum - well everyone gets that problem once in a while.................

And that in turn makes it just a whole lot harder for us, because we encounter lots of atypical neuro-typicals.

What is quite striking though is the extent to which autism has caught on with scriptwriters. It isn't just Sherlock Holmes - crime series on television have more and more flawed characters, as do lots of other contexts - Doc Martin being an example.

That might be quite good in the long run if it gets people to be more aware and more understanding, it might in turn help us.