Non voter

Seek help Irish. Seriously.

[content removed by Moderator due to breaches of rules 2 and 3 of the online community rules and guidelines]

I too often imagine what my grandparents would make of society today. I am in Northern Ireland and we have PR because it is the only way that would give representation to a divided society. Sometimes, I would vote tactically to try to keep someone out. I think people in the UK, US, Europe and around the world have become more individualistic and can fail to consider the collective good and it is horrifying to think that some of our representatives might disregard society’s most vulnerable.

There are many ways of implementing PR.

Scottish local elections use single transferable vote which is very complex and not very transparent but possibly decent.

Holyrood elections use a system where we have two votes - one for a local MSP and one where regional MSPs are selected from a list. But the outcome of this is that the great majority of Scots have been unrepresented at Holyrood for 18 years.

PR-lite.

I look around at the candidates available to us, you've got to think of national interests as well as local ones, if we're lucky we might get a very good constituency MP, if we're unlucky we're get a good constituency MP who's a member of a party who's overall strategy is one that you can't find any common ground with, then what do you do?

I think society has always demonised the sick and disabled, at best we get some kind of patronising sympathy and patted on the head, at worst not believed and/or told we have some karmic issues.

*****************

I do understand about all the people who fought and died so we could live in a democratic country, but I wonder what those people would say if they could see what that hard earned democracy has become? We seem to have swapped having aristocrats as MP's for lawyers and professional politicians, how many "ordinary" people are in parliament, how are different elements in society represented? I don't think those people just fought for the right to vote, but for everything that goes with it.  My parents generation were children during WW2, although all my Dad siblings saw actice service and both sets of grandparents, did thier part too, after the war they were promised a brave new world where they paid this new tax, NI, and they would be cared for, they have a pension, didn't have to worry about being sick, not only would the be able to access medical care free at the point of use, but sick pay to tide them over and long term sick pay if they didn't recover. A couple of years before he died, when we were at the heart of austerity and political choices were being made to punish the less well off and the council services they used, and the co-option of our war dead for dubious party political propaganda, he burst out with 'WE DIDN'T GO THROUGH ALL THAT FOR THIS!'.

Clearly this subject occupies much of your thoughts. Forgive me for not understanding how Ireland is close to collapse, with the UK coming along behind. In what sense? Ireland is doing very well financially. What would be your alternative to voting? 

Not PR - it was alternative vote.

It’s just black and white common sense.

Unknown said:

The emotional blackmail

It isn't.

If it were a Labour candidate saying it with a vested interest it might be otherwise.

Look at what has happened in the US.

Sometimes voting is to keep the worst out even if you don't wholeheartedly agree with policies.

That said I am however very disappointed myself in this government for the reasons stated.

Yes, we do need to tax the top percent of earners in the UK. I agree that a Reform or Tory government would be much worse. It seems as if all party's are trying to out right wing each other.  

Deleted User said:

Regardless, if people won’t support Labour there will only be one outcome - a Reform or Tory government which would make things vastly worse.

The emotional blackmail of 'support Labour and their intended,morally unacceptable, actions against  the disabled and vulnerable because  the alternatives  are even worse'.

Good lord, you must be fun to be sat next to at a dinner party LOL

What things inspire hope and joy for you? Puppies, long walks on the beach, a freshly baked cake?

Finding the balance to so much negativity about the world is important to peoples mental health so I wonder how you manage this.

For me it is working with my hands and doing charity work plus I love good food - these things all make me smile and forget about all the bad things in life for at least a little while.

All that said, I agree the voting system is pretty unfit for purpose, but there is yet to be a significantly better solution. PR is better but not by much.

Voting is enabling a corrupt system that needs to collapse under the weight of its own corruption and is too corrupt beyond repair to ever again be fit for purpose, regardless of who one votes for, it makes no difference any more - if voting really did anything useful, voting would be illegal - democracy is deception, illusion and delusion - there is no political nor democratic solution - I used to believe in democracy and the democratic process, the courts etc, before Covid in 2020, but during 2022, I gradually realised that it was all a total sham and a total con - my native Ireland is very close to total collapse long before the U.K. and besides, we are far closer than ever to a global nuke war than we have ever been during the Cold War with so many other hostile nuke nations hostile to the west having nukes and they are not afraid to use them - if any attempt is made by NATO or the CCP to invade Russia after its defeat in Ukraine, even if Putin and/or his generals are removed from power, Russia’s nukes are on an automatic firing system and despite what they said to Russia and everyone else, if it suits them, the CCP will fire its nukes at the West if they feel it’s to their advantage 

In 2011 there was a nationwide referendum on PR and it was rejected by 67.90% to 32.10%. Hard to fathom so many people voting against their own self-interest, misinformation like Brexit, I guess.

I believe it’s important to vote for someone, even if it’s the least worst option, but I think the arguments for and against are not always clear cut in today’s world. I also believe it’s is important to offer financial protection and a living income to those who are unable to do any work through sickness or disability. It is sickening how society has demonised these people.

ArchaeC said:

I had been reluctant to engage in anything political until the last few days, as I didn’t want to upset anyone, or to be upset

Thank you and ditto.

These types of threads do predictably become contentious on occasion so that this one remains peaceful.

Hello Debhog. Good to have you here although this is my first post on this thread. I had been reluctant to engage in anything political until the last few days, as I didn’t want to upset anyone, or to be upset.

Thank you - I'm OKish thanks.

I hope you are well too.

Lotus said:

Hope this thread stays friendly and respectful while allowing different views and hope it doesn't get locked or deleted!

I thought the same thing.

Fingers crossed.

Nice to see you joining in too, Deb, hope you are well.

Hope this thread stays friendly and respectful while allowing different views and hope it doesn't get locked or deleted!