Non voter

But the people who didn't vote in the Brexit referendum could have voted - it was their choice not to participate in that decision. We don't know how they would have voted, so you cannot assume that if they had all voted we would have remained in the EU. 

It's nice to see a lively thread here again, so thanks for this F.

I noticed earlier on that there were 24 members 'here'.

Hello everyone

PR is no panacea.

We have PR in the Scottish parliament elections and yet we’ve had an SNP government for the last 18 years, on the basis of about a million voters.

Which means that the majority Scots haven’t had any representation at Holyrood for 18 years.

Lotus said:

Don't apologise - I didn't think you were being patronising

I'm pleased to hear that.

Thank you for telling me.

Words on 'paper' can be read in so many ways.

Don't apologise - I didn't think you were being patronising! 

Lotus said:

If we ever get proportional representation, so that my vote will definitely count

That really matters to me too as I live in a traditionally Tory area and my vote is the same as throwing it down the toilet.

I did it for that reason too, for decades. But at the last general election, there was no party whose policies I agreed with and I after decades of seeing what they do after they get into office, having promised us jam tomorrow and then tomorrow never comes, I'm sick of them all and sick of wasting my time.

If we ever get proportional representation, so that my vote will definitely count, and get parties that actually offer something different, I might consider starting voting again.

Sorry if that sounded aggressive or patronising LucyLandRover. It wasn’t my intention.

Brexit was voted for by just 17.4 million people out of an electorate of over 46 million.

Lotus said:

Yes Deb, I'm aware of that - it's one of the reasons I voted Labour for decades when I was younger.

Sorry - I hope I didn't sound patronising.

Lotus said:

in their current form they don't seem to care about the poorest sections of society.

I'm the same as you then really - I think I'm wedded to an old ideal of Labour although I do still vote for them because for me there is no alternative.

I'm disappointed by a lot of what they have done this time around.

I agree there are loopholes that need closed but the top 1% already pay around 30% of the entire income tax revenues. There is a balance between taxing people and encouraging them to avoid tax.

It’s really the top 0.05% we need to look at.

Regardless, if people won’t support Labour there will only be one outcome - a Reform or Tory government which would make things vastly worse.

That’s called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Yes Deb, I'm aware of that - it's one of the reasons I voted Labour for decades when I was younger. But they started to go off course during the Blair years and in their current form they don't seem to care about the poorest sections of society. They are no longer "Labour". 

Martin said:

because I know that others fought and died, were imprisoned, transported or tortured, like the Suffragettes, to ensure that universal adult suffrage became possible

Me too.

Lotus said:

none of them care about the vulnerable.

We wouldn't have a welfare state or the NHS without the Labour party.

However, that was then and this is now.

I voted in the brexit referendum, I think it was an unually high voter turnout too.

I think if I had been American I wouldn't of voted, it seemed like asking people if they'd prefer to be strangled or beaten?

We could always start taxing the wealthy instead and close down the many loop holes they use to avoid paying their fair share. Yes, they did take on a lot of issues but continuing the assault on the vulnerable is not going to grow the economy.  

I vote in every election I am entitled to vote in, because I know that others fought and died, were imprisoned, transported or tortured, like the Suffragettes, to ensure that universal adult suffrage became possible. I would feel too guilty to do otherwise.

I only stopped voting a few years ago. I did vote in the Brexit referendum because every vote counted - unlike in a general election where If I vote for a party that doesn't get a majority in my constituency, my vote is ignored.

However, I voted for Brexit, but I respect the choice of people who voted against it as long as they don't vilify me for my choice. I'm not right wing - I have voted Labour many times, but have voted for other parties too.

I agree that Labour inherited a disaster and that we need to give them time to fix things which won't happen over night, but they don't need to compound the difficulties with things like cutting the winter fuel payments to all but those who can claim pension credits. I do agree that it's ridiculous for the wealthy to recieve it, but wouldn't it be better done through the tax system, if you pay a higher rate of tax on your savings and investments, then you don't need a winter fuel payment.

I don't agree with everything the green party say either.

Being given time and not treating the disabled and/or vulnerable  badly, aren't mutually exclusive.