Anew government

I'm slightly ashamed of the proportion of our countrymen and women who voted Reform, presumably a mix of the gullible, the disgruntled, the stupid and the fascistic.

We would like to remind you of Rule 5:

Be nice to one another and enjoy chatting with others. We encourage conversation and respectful debate; please be aware that individuals may give opinions which are not shared by other members. Insulting posts or comments making personal jibes will not be tolerated.   

There is absolutely nothing personal in what I said, no one on the forum has said that they have voted for Reform, so,  logically, I cannot have aimed my comments at any particular person. I see standing up against any political party or movement that is fundamentally inimical to autistics and other neurodivergent people as an imperative for me, especially here. Hans Asperger allowed 'less useful autistics' to be sent to places where he knew, or could reasonably have suspected, they would be murdered. That type of horror should not be allowed to happen again. Even small stands against that way of thinking are worthwhile.

I have some level of hope in the basic decency of the greater part of the British people to think that whatever name - and Farage's parties have changed theirs more frequently than any other in history - Farage's party goes under it will remain the refuge of a small minority. The disgust of many who were inclined towards Farage after the views of some of his underlings were made public has heartened me.

The Far Right use fear to drum up support, never hope. Fear of foreigners, fear of the poor sods in little inflatable boats who are so desperate to get to this apparently benighted country that they are willing to risk their lives, fear of the EU forcing straight cucumbers on them, fear of ethnic and religious minorities and so on. FEAR, FEAR, FEAR! 

I prefer hope.

Trump is a definitely a Fascist, one of the defining features of which is the use of street violence (Blackshirts, SA) towards political ends and the assault on the Capitol fits this perfectly.

Those who openly identify as members of the group "left of centre" repeatly and consitently introduce ultra right wing concepts and symbolism as descriptive of a bloc of U.K. voters. Why is that?

The right wingers tell me it's because you can't meme...

Most voters I notice liek em over teh prevuous advice were clued up enough to stay at home...

Only four million of us stirred our disconsolate selves enough to say "Anything but more of what we've had since the seventies!" but after the next four years (Unless Kier really is a Magician) the reform vote will be substantially bigger, and I think I'd even bet an ounce of slver on it....

Unless "they" can find some serious dirt on Mr Farage of course. 

I do not advocate sending Reform voters, or even Farage, to gas chambers. This is the essential distinction. I have German and Austrian relatives, they fled the Red Army to get into the British Zone, walking a lot of the way. I was one of two small boys in my home town who wore lederhosen - very practical wear for small boys.

It's simple, really. 

Those of us stuck out on the fringes just want things to get a bit more normal.

Prosperity comes from production. The productive people were quiet, too busy working to produce, leaving the louder voces and idler hands to assume control of what they produced. 

THIS is the result. 

Galloway didn't have the common decency to show up at the official result announcement in Rochdale, once he knew he had lost. I have zero respect for a person with such little grace or decency. One of Farage's teachers at Dulwich College formally, in writing, objected to him being considered as a potential prefect. The letter stated that Farage "publicly professed neo-Fascist views" - warning that he was prone to singing Hitler Youth songs. Just about all that needs to be known about Farage.

I have such people in my extended family. I know why they voted for national socialism. 

And some of them are still annoyed about losing to us. I watched Opa (grandad) Willi visbly struggle with his instinctive liking of me versus his resentment of how the Ryal navy treated him after fishing him out of the water after first torpedoing his ship.... 

It all started with "labelliing" entire blocks of people, as "undesitables" using rigidly (or corruptly) enforced political metrics to select a scapegoat class from otherwise blamelss groups of people. 

Labelling and denigrating people who voted differenlty is of the same ilk, how is this so difficult to see?

Martin said:

I suspect that a very large proportion of the German voters who voted Hitler into power were gullible or disgruntled

And the American population look likely to vote Trump into power at the end of the year too. This is democracy at work.

We have to respect the choices of these people, however personally distasteful we find them otherwise we are being dictatorial ourselves in trying to stamp out their beliefs.

I'm sure there were plenty of gullible and/or stupid voters who went for Labour this time round too, also those disgruntled with the previous government so these arguements are worthless here in my opinion.

That only leaves the label of fascist which is pretty much what half of America is voting for at the moment.

You may not agree with its principles but a heck of a lot of people apparently do, so democracy needs to give then the right to expression so long as they stay within the law.

Perhaps you ought to be more "restrained" then, at least in the field of using blanket insulting terms for people who have slightly differing ideals to your own? Just try and keep up the tone a bit? or as the mods try to say, BE NICE.

There are clearly levels of understanding to "political awareness" and it's entirely concievable that there are a number of perfectly good generally liberal minded & socially responsible SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE NAME. You just can't blanket insult such people.

FWIW, I was the very last person to show up to vote in my area (the previous contender who was hanging about to claim the honour complained as I walked in...)

What tipped me over the edge (despite the very visible nasty socialist overtones that I saw in reform party videos) was the truly Autistic level of truth telling about the backgournd and cause of the Ukraine war that Ngel displayed in one interview. I half expected him to meet an abrupt end after going THAT hard against the prevailing lies.

I haven't voted in about thirty years, was not going to, but Nigel was properly courageous in giving those answers whilst trying to compete in an election. (Some say "selection" is a more appropriate description of the process) That level of basic truthiness under pressure is almost unheard of in my life of watching polittics. 

I like personal valour more than I like a good slogan.

I can't believe George Galloway lost his seat! (I like him becuse his was principled enough to not only oppose the gulf war but also serve as a human shield in iraq, which whetehr or not you agree with his principles IS a fine example of man who is prepared to walk his own talk. 

I suspect that a very large proportion of the German voters who voted Hitler into power were gullible or disgruntled, a much lesser proportion being stupid or Fascistic. I also suspect the same to be true of Reform voters. 'Gullible' and 'disgruntled' are not terms of abuse as far as I am aware. One can respect the right of people to vote for whoever they wish to, while at the same time finding their choice execrable.

Martin said:

There is absolutely nothing personal in what I said

You said that those who voted for Reform were (in your presumption) gullible, disgruntled, stuid or fascistic.

That is a very large group of people to lable this way (14% of the vote I think, so over 4 million people). That probably works out to be about 1 in 10 adults.

It represents a valid choice for people (in spite of how heinous you may consider them) and in a democracy you should respect other peoples decisions on who they vote for.

Reasoned arguement rather than name calling is a more mature way to debate.

That is probably why the mods thought to remond you to be nice.

I do not consider myself 'curbed'.

They cannot, as I said, have been directed personally. As no person on the forum had said that they supported Reform. I think critiques of political parties, even those that pull no punches, are fair here or anywhere else.

I am not claiming that Farage is a Nazi in the mould of Hitler, but all nationalistic political movements tend to go a similar and predestined way. The nation is the be all and end all, therefore those considered 'not of the nation' get targeted - immigrants and the descendants of immigrants, racial and religious minorities etc. Further than that, those who cannot add to the greatness of the nation become suspect - the physically and mentally disabled, the old, the chronically ill etc. Inevitably, the 'other' and the 'useless' see increased discrimination and marginalisation. At its most extreme they see the equivalent of 'Arbeit Macht Frei'.

I think a reasonable person CAN see the jibes, insults whatever being so freely handed out back there.

I reported it becuse it needed to be curbed, and it was. 

I think a reasonable person CAN see the jibes, insults whatever being so freely handed out back there.

I reported it becuse it needed to be curbed, and it was. 

Galloway didn't have the common decency to show up at the official result announcement in Rochdale, once he knew he had lost. I have zero respect for a person with such little grace or decency. One of Farage's teachers at Dulwich College formally, in writing, objected to him being considered as a potential prefect. The letter stated that Farage "publicly professed neo-Fascist views" - warning that he was prone to singing Hitler Youth songs. Just about all that needs to be known about Farage.

Perhaps you ought to be more "restrained" then, at least in the field of using blanket insulting terms for people who have slightly differing ideals to your own? Just try and keep up the tone a bit? or as the mods try to say, BE NICE.

There are clearly levels of understanding to "political awareness" and it's entirely concievable that there are a number of perfectly good generally liberal minded & socially responsible SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE NAME. You just can't blanket insult such people.

FWIW, I was the very last person to show up to vote in my area (the previous contender who was hanging about to claim the honour complained as I walked in...)

What tipped me over the edge (despite the very visible nasty socialist overtones that I saw in reform party videos) was the truly Autistic level of truth telling about the backgournd and cause of the Ukraine war that Ngel displayed in one interview. I half expected him to meet an abrupt end after going THAT hard against the prevailing lies.

I haven't voted in about thirty years, was not going to, but Nigel was properly courageous in giving those answers whilst trying to compete in an election. (Some say "selection" is a more appropriate description of the process) That level of basic truthiness under pressure is almost unheard of in my life of watching polittics. 

I like personal valour more than I like a good slogan.

I can't believe George Galloway lost his seat! (I like him becuse his was principled enough to not only oppose the gulf war but also serve as a human shield in iraq, which whetehr or not you agree with his principles IS a fine example of man who is prepared to walk his own talk. 

I do not consider myself 'curbed'.

They cannot, as I said, have been directed personally. As no person on the forum had said that they supported Reform. I think critiques of political parties, even those that pull no punches, are fair here or anywhere else.