Supermarket annoyance.

I quite agree. I can see no reason that there should be significant shortages of anything at this point. The production of food and goods didn't suddenly plunge off a cliff, and reasonably well-off folks with freezer-space and a car (i.e. the majority of the selfish hoarders) should have little need to buy so much more than they normally would to cope with a two week quarantine (to quote a joke I saw recently; if you need a trolley-full of loo-paper for a fortnight, you should probably have seen a doctor long before the virus outbreak!).

I have had a few dirty looks already when some of my slightly less charitable thoughts have inadvertently slipped out ("sure you've got enough there?") - not knowing when I'm speaking out loud is probably an autistic trait I could do without right now. But franky, I think it is about time that decent people do let their disapproval show, and that we try to make such selfishness socially unacceptable. I didn't really expect the supermarkets to respond swiftly (ker-ching!), and I would have been completely in favour of them being forced to implement rationing long before they've finally got around it voluntarily.

And who is likely to suffer most from the selfishness of the hoarders? The very people who are most likely to have the most to fear from the virus -  elderly folks, disabled people, and those with chronic illnesses; especially if they have no family or friends with sharp elbows.

I for one have no problem with you having a bit of a rant; I'm thoroughly disgusted myself with some people's behaviour (many of whom no doubt would allege that its autistic folks like us who are short of social graces and common sense!)

I'm one of the individuals whose autism means their hypersensitive to taste and texture. As such, my diet is restricted to a few meals and a few brands. One of these meals is pasta with a homemade sauce. All of the supermarkets near me have been out of passata for over a week now. I only have the ingredients to make four of these meals now 

If most of the world's workforce are self-isolating or ill it's highly likely that there will be shortages. I have had sleepless nights and panic attacks about being able to adequately feed myself. Last night, I went to the local Indian supermarket and stocked up on a few large bags of rice, so at least if everything else I can eat runs out I can survive on bowls of boiled rice and water. I did sit and cry at the prospect of having to live like this before I set out, especially as I have a 6-month-old daughter to look after, which means being adequately nourished to have the energy to be a good mum is key.

Trogluddite said:

I have had a few dirty looks already when some of my slightly less charitable thoughts have inadvertently slipped out ("sure you've got enough there?") - not knowing when I'm speaking out loud is probably an autistic trait I could do without right now

I don't think it because you voiced a thought out loud Trogluddite, its more to do with the fact that you're being rude to someone when you do not know their circumstances, plus you're showing a lack of compassion. You have no idea why they need all of that shopping. For example, they may have a large household, adverse reactions to sensory stimuli that make being in crowds difficult or mental health issues, such as suffering from anxiety in crowds based on previous traumatic experiences. 

I usually shop on-line due to finding busy places challenging but my local supermarket have no slots available for the next three weeks and I can not get through to the phone line to register for priority disability shopping. I went to Tesco at 6 am this morning to be able to try and get the bits I needed. It was mayhem and I had to work really hard not to have a panic attack. The lack of sleep, fear of not being able to feed me, the crowds, lights etc was hell. If you'd have spoken to me in the way you have been doing to other people Trogluddite it would have had me in tears.

If we want society to show us compassion and understanding, when others are experiencing challenges, such as overwhelming anxiety around being able to feed themselves, shouldn't we behave how we'd like to be treated? E.g Do what we can to protect ourself and not speak in a derogatory manner about others who are experiencing mental ill-health?

I'm one of the individuals whose autism means their hypersensitive to taste and texture. As such, my diet is restricted to a few meals and a few brands. One of these meals is pasta with a homemade sauce. All of the supermarkets near me have been out of passata for over a week now. I only have the ingredients to make four of these meals now 

If most of the world's workforce are self-isolating or ill it's highly likely that there will be shortages. I have had sleepless nights and panic attacks about being able to adequately feed myself. Last night, I went to the local Indian supermarket and stocked up on a few large bags of rice, so at least if everything else I can eat runs out I can survive on bowls of boiled rice and water. I did sit and cry at the prospect of having to live like this before I set out, especially as I have a 6-month-old daughter to look after, which means being adequately nourished to have the energy to be a good mum is key.

Trogluddite said:

I have had a few dirty looks already when some of my slightly less charitable thoughts have inadvertently slipped out ("sure you've got enough there?") - not knowing when I'm speaking out loud is probably an autistic trait I could do without right now

I don't think it because you voiced a thought out loud Trogluddite, its more to do with the fact that you're being rude to someone when you do not know their circumstances, plus you're showing a lack of compassion. You have no idea why they need all of that shopping. For example, they may have a large household, adverse reactions to sensory stimuli that make being in crowds difficult or mental health issues, such as suffering from anxiety in crowds based on previous traumatic experiences. 

I usually shop on-line due to finding busy places challenging but my local supermarket have no slots available for the next three weeks and I can not get through to the phone line to register for priority disability shopping. I went to Tesco at 6 am this morning to be able to try and get the bits I needed. It was mayhem and I had to work really hard not to have a panic attack. The lack of sleep, fear of not being able to feed me, the crowds, lights etc was hell. If you'd have spoken to me in the way you have been doing to other people Trogluddite it would have had me in tears.

If we want society to show us compassion and understanding, when others are experiencing challenges, such as overwhelming anxiety around being able to feed themselves, shouldn't we behave how we'd like to be treated? E.g Do what we can to protect ourself and not speak in a derogatory manner about others who are experiencing mental ill-health?

Compassion has completly disappeared with common sense. I had an ambulance as I'd deteriorated. The dr ordered inhalors to try open my airways as I'm strong enough as not classed vulnerable to stay at home. The dr said he put the inhalors as urgent. I called our pharmacy struggling to talk through breathlessness and coughs. Asked could they please deliver I've been told I have corona. She said no we re busy you collect them yourself! Considering I'd collapsed and 111 called the ambulance and Id been seen and told corona I was pre meltdown already. I called the dr back who was outraged and my meds arrived within 10 mins! But considering we're in quarantine to stop the spread, a pharmacy telling someone who's got corona to pick up their own meds is absurd. I get angry at the lack of common sense and compassion at the moment. It's just everyone for themselves

I said nothing about "shouting", nor indicated that I directed my mumblings at anyone in particular (which I would not have the social confidence to do in any case). I doubt that I said anything loud enough for anyone to hear the actual words at all. In fact, I find it incredibly hard to raise my voice even when I need to, as I have conditioned myself to be extremely quiet most of the time (in part because chronic insomnia means that I'm often up and about when others are trying to sleep).

Why are people jumping to the conclusion that I don't realise it would be rude? I have already made quite clear that I found my reaction embarrassing and inapproriate. If anything, I am usually known for being excessively polite and formal in my use of language, and rarely use profanity. More generally, I try to judge people people by their intent, insofar as I'm able to judge it, rather than their ideolect - there are plenty of nasty people in the world who hide behind superficial politeness, and many kind people who curse rather more than I do.

Self-narration is a behaviour which I have encountered in many people with ASD and ADHD; and like myself, many seem to find that it helps them to overcome executive function impairments. I have also spoken with many who report finding it difficult to determine whether they are thinking only using their "internal voice" or are vocalising (not unique to autism, of course). Echolalia is also extremely common among autistic people, which may even include the echoing of profanity (as may also be true of the tics of Tourette's Syndrome).

The "evidence" so far as I'm concerned is that I have personally spoken with many autistic people who report these behaviours, and who expend considerable mental energy trying to suppress them, as they also do their stimming etc. The formal study of autism fascinates me and I take a great interest in it - enough of an interest to know that it is woefully behind the "cultural knowledge" of the autism community, and has a long history of biases and misrepresentation. Thankfully, that has begun to improve in recent decades, but there is still a long way to go. If there is any research into this aspect of executive functioning, I would be glad to hear of it myself. Absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence, as the old saying goes, and the sheer diversity of autism makes generalising problematic, no matter how large research cohorts might be.

The thread is on the theme of "annoyance", and I gave one small example of when such annoyance has leaked out and I mumbled something, and only realised that I had done so when I noticed a reaction from someone nearby. I have had the same reaction when I have inadvertently started self-narrating myself through tasks in the workplace, or when I'm ruminating while out and about generally, when my self-talk has nothing whatsoever to do with the behaviour of the people around me.

I am glad to hear that you are a kind, considerate person, but I don't consider it helpful to people with neurological conditions to reinforce the stereotype that talking to oneself should be taken as an indication that the self-talker is a crazy person who should be avoided, or the all too common assumption which people make that the subject of such talk is always them.

Frankly, I find it rather ironic that I have attracted so much criticism from people who could easily be read as "virtue signalling" their own compassion, yet who seem quick to jump to conclusions and cast aspertions about my character and social background based on one isolated example (albeit I accept that you apologised in advance for possibly having done so). Surely it would also be compassionate to understand that people sometimes say things which they do not really mean when they are under considerable stress and their resources for self-control have been exhausted.

I'm an autistic and am currently studying a PhD in autism behaviour and haven't heard that shouting negative comments out loud in stressful situations as part of the diagnostic criteria. I've tried Googling it but nothing came up, therefore, could you point me to the evidence for this? Or let me know what this is if I have the wrong end of the stick.

Have you considered that your behaviour may be more to do with your socialisation than your neurotype? I grew up in a working class culture where it was normal behaviour to say negative comments loudly in stressful situations. There were a lot of people like this when I was in Tesco at 6am the other day. I always new this behaviour was wrong and had an awareness that you become like the people you spend time with. I moved away from this culture and distance myself from those that are like this, such as the step father in law. Instead I fill my life with those who are open-minded and kind. This means that unlike the peers that I grew up with, who I've seen demonstrate this behaviour, I do not say rude comments aloud to strangers when I'm stressed or anxious - even when it is really hard, like when I was in Tesco hell last week.

Its ridiculous as shops in our area are closing at mid day as theres nothing left in store! We only live in a small town! I thing the shops should do click and collect or online only at the moment and limit sales. I get angry that I see people buying just to sell on. Hand soap was going for 8 pounds on ebay. Their cockroaches in my opinion. I picked up calpol for someone as they didnt have any for their baby as people are buying to sell! Baby milk and nappies are other items that are hard to come by!

• I qualified my statement with "less than charitable" in recognition of the fact that I had later reflected upon my thoughts and found them wanting. If I didn't perceive such behaviour as rude, I would not have driven myself to burn-out so many times in my life by masking.
• I was describing an emotive reaction to a situation which I find just as stressful as you have described, not a rationalised belief about any particular individual who may have provoked that reaction.
• Self-talking is an irresistable autistic trait for me, which requires immense amounts of self-control to keep in check. When under stress, I am simply not always able to do this, and it has caused much embarassment throughout my life.
• Some autistic people's expression of their traits may indeed upset other people, whether those people are autistic or not. This is unfortunate but sometimes unavoidable. I do sympathise with how upsetting you might find my reaction were it to seem directed at you, but I may have no greater ability to control my reaction than you would yours, and I would do my utmost to put things right were it to happen.
• I was not describing mere annoyance at someone taking a little more than usual, but the prevalence of people filling entire trollies with the same few products. Certainly, I cannot say why any individual might do this, but the phenomenon is too widespread for this to be explained by all of those people having disabilities. I stand by my statement that selfish stock-piling should be discouraged, albeit that the reaction I described is certainly not the most appropriate way to do this (granted, I should probably have made this much clearer than I did).

I certainly agree with you in principle. But my emotive reactions when under duress are what they are, and I'm no more able to control them than anyone else is. I sometimes cannot help expressing them before having the opportunity to mediate them with self-reflection, which is a necessary component of compassion for any person. It is not uncommon that I am racked with guilt or embarrassment when my behaviour does not meet my own expectations.

Accusing an autistic person of "lack of compassion" because of an honest description of their traits when highly stressed may also be extremely hurtful to that person. Advice regarding how best to get along in the world is certainly most welcome, but your post strays perilously close to "thought policing", IMHO, albeit that I unconditionally accept that this was with the best of intentions.

As to whether I am compassionate or not. I post here often enough that I am happy for other members to judge that for themselves!