The fine line between needing to be social and needing solitude.

In the past I have tried to socialise and fit in. I think I have fooled myself and those around me sometimes. More and more I am acknowledging what I don't enjoy.  Socialising often seems pointless as the reality of it is both difficult and unrewarding. I do like spending alot of time on my own but by avoiding the world I have become more isolated. I do not try new or different things and this has made my life somewhat limited. Depression and boredom is often the result of my desire to avoid the world. My social circle is ever increasingly small. In the past I have been more out going but now I find myself saying less as it is easier. Sustaining a conversation is tiring and feels like acting. Some of the reasons why I find people difficult:

• They are not interesting
• I do not understand where they are coming from
• I do not think I can be myself and honest with them
• I feel awkward and self-concious
• I do not think they will understand me
• I do not know what to say

It makes many situations seem difficult. On the one hand I want to do things and on the other I don't.......so yes, it is a 'fine line between needing to be social and needing solitude'.

I think we don't challenge ourselves enough as Aspergers sufferers. People are a puzzle, so start with the edges.

I memorised sketches of body language positions and their meanings, which helped with knowing when to exit or enter a conversation that was face to face. Weirdly I couldn't memorise the ones I purchased of facial expressions, I somehow blank at that information.

If I crave social interaction (which is rare) I have to understand that I must take part in it, and to take part in anything there are rules for all taking part. If I just hammer  on about my concepts of peer support and self responsibility it isnt social interaction it is lecturing.

I decided to, for example, look at religion and faith as a whole and try listening to everyones viewpoint. Previously I felt I had some right to tell people they were wrong, and would argue and argue.

That wasn't  social interaction, that was me spouting. 

Haythml said:

Although you crave the social interaction it is never as good as you imagine, which is fairly common in life. I realise it is my condition that puts me in this situation so I try and allow for that in judgement. Very well written question though.

Yes, It does always tend to be a bit naff. I suppose it's like going out soder when everyone else is drunk.

Try to imagine being stuck on a bench with someone forceably discussing Jordans latest boob job, Cheryl Coles latest handbag and Steps Reunion Tour with you to imagine how people feel when you talk about Slave labour encampments.

Ah you mean a literal "Hell on Earth" 

I do wonder if people feel unfortabel with the topic or are denialists of it's similarities. 

I like that one Goatworshipper.

I guess the answer is , Yes. Stop worrying about it.

Although you crave the social interaction it is never as good as you imagine, which is fairly common in life. I realise it is my condition that puts me in this situation so I try and allow for that in judgement. Very well written question though.

Try to imagine being stuck on a bench with someone forceably discussing Jordans latest boob job, Cheryl Coles latest handbag and Steps Reunion Tour with you to imagine how people feel when you talk about Slave labour encampments.

OK though, because i understand the concept it doesnt mean I've been able to stop doing it mind.

Im with you, cut the grass and ignore people......

Even the neurotypicals I know think JobCenters are a pointless waste of time and money.

Oh, and, the longer you're on JSA the worse it gets - yes it's all very "just do two things per week" at the beginning, but it doesn't stay like that.

spektral said:

I am pretty sure you could overdub a video of said stick and larger weilding persons with a David Attenborough peice to good effect. Alpha males with litters of children from his many mates. Subordinate females challenging for prime spot with the males.

It also makes me think its kind of like a Stella remake of 2001: A Space Odyssey 

This sounds like a plan

I can imagine them thinking, you have savings how dare you claim what your entitled too. Job centres get no one jobs.

Atleast they asked that you applied for two jobs a week. My local office just requested that you looked for jobs twice a week.

I had a very similar expereince to that too. I wanted to do a course but they told me I cant while claiming, unless I want to do one of their pointless "how to get a job" courses. Like you said, supervised applications ( I can fill a bloody form in thank you very much!) and other nonsense. I never got forced outdoor activies though. I certainly feel for you. I struggled to even enter the building as having a bouncer on the door of a place that is supposed to be helping me didnt inspire much confidence.

I was earning a good wage prior to all this so, like you, really struggled to cope with  the situation. Luckily I had a small amount of savings to live on at the time (which the job centre didnt like either!)

I will never go back there again. I really feel for the people in need of real advice and financial support from the Job Centre, as the service they offer is appauling.

I miss the internet of 15 years ago. No kids (although I was 13 then!), hardly any adverts and decent people having decent conversations. The internet now seems to be made up of cat videos, pictures with FAIL! written on, porn, inane babble, social networks and maybe 10% useful information.

I am pretty sure you could overdub a video of said stick and larger weilding persons with a David Attenborough peice to good effect. Alpha males with litters of children from his many mates. Subordinate females challenging for prime spot with the males.

It also makes me think its kind of like a Stella remake of 2001: A Space Odyssey 

Yes it was the same situation. Apply for two jobs per week. I had a trade, so for the first six month's I could apply for whatever I wanted and I genuinely applied for every position I saw for that said trade (Industrial Pipework). I wasn't getting anywere with that, so I done some music technology courses to stop me pulling my hair out, but I was willing to leave them if a job came along. The job centre didnt seem to like me doing these jobs.

I found it difficult to survive on £45 per week. I also felt useless at the amount of knock backs I was getting. After six months I got sent to a place with I refer to as a job seekers death camp. I had to apply for jobs "beeing supervised", I felt terrible doing this.  I hatied the people I was forced to mix with and I found the staff were bullies. They were trying to make me go kyacking with these people. I was nervous enough about going kyacking in the ice cold sea March, let alone with some of these folk. So I just invoked complaints proceedures every two minutes and made thier lifes difficult. If I get a ASD diagnosis (as im expecting) the impact of all of this makes more sense. If I was still at home, id have just cancelled my claim. However living out of home was very difficult especially as I was used to earning about £380 per week then.

However in the background to this I was still applying for jobs and going through UCAS to go to Uni as a fail safe. I went to Uni and loved it. Not looked back since.

No I've never had www debates on the benifits system. I could just imagine it winding me up no end.

Sticks and cans of larger are the way forward. I've seen people in blissful utopia with these two objects, Im sure it brings out the inner primate.

Goatworshiper said:

I've been on JSA twice as a youngster and it certainly isnt the easy ride it's made out to be.

Firstly, I have enjoyed reading this topic emmensly. All your perspectives are much more logical and in tune with what I feel. I dont know if any of you have tried to have a similar conversation elsewhere on the www but It always turns into a massive argument and gets filled with ignorant one line comments.

I found that statement really interesting Goatworshiper as I was on JSA for a while a couple of years ago and I was so shocked at how easy it was. They gave me this little book where I had to fill in what actions I had taken that week to look for work. The mimimum you have to do is 2 "actions" a week. So looking at one website and one newspaper in a week would be enough. I filled this book in 2 weeks after doing about 20 things a day. They told me to stop writing it down.

I stopped claiming in the end as I couldnt handle going in the office. A mix of shame and the people inside got too much for me. 

Sometimes I do envy people that are content with a can of larger and a stick 

I would like that on a t-shirt! 

I find the thing what really makes me start ranting is people's refusal to listen. I can take refusal to accept, I understand people have differing opinion. In my opinion I can balance quite well. My mum gets on my nerve's, I love her, but I find her very ignorant. I also hate people rudely interupting. This is what led my to post on here, It's also why I wouldn't let her anywhere near the diagnostic proceedure. I once tried to bring up autism, and within two hours it had went from complete denial to it must be a MMR, when I pointed out I didnt have MMR (my sister dehydrated when she had one, so my mum wouldnt let me) it was an injection my grandfather must have been given during WWII. She couldnt seem to contemplate genetic influence runs from male and female bloodlines. However I maybe shouldnt just highlight my mum. I find work collegues similar.

When Im frustrated I find writing becomes harder, which makes me more frustrated. I sometimes get like that with reading too. Im sure thats a dyslexia thing. But when I argue, I tend to end up apologising even If I believe Im right as I find argueing very traumatic, I hate shouting. Im not sure if this is tied into autism or its just my personallity?

Your writing comes accross as exceptional. I've also learned to hold back on email (&facebook), if I makes a point that isnt to everyone's taste I find the spelling gets ridiculed and people sidestep my point. For instance my sister is talking about her dreams on facebook and taking them literally, and I feel like pointing her in the direction of science. However I know for being rational it won't go down well. 

I think I could with a new focus point. Something new to learn, or putting some use to my knowledge/expanding it. When I went to Uni, I was probably the happiest I've been in my life and I think thats down to having structure, being able to debate properly and it filled my need for information gathering. I think having goals is good thing. 

Thanks for the responses. I know deep down, that i will care. I find it impossible not to care. Sometimes I do envy people that are content with a can of larger and a stick 

I guess I'm of a converse nature. I try to get involved and do things - well i cannot do the social thing, so I've more "time on my hands" (loopy visual metaphor).

I'm fortunate not to have dyslexia which affects many on the spectrum, so I write well. It does leave a problem whereby I don't come over in person anything like the way I come over in print.

Unfortunately I had a tendancy to rant and rail at the world when younger, and it took years to learn that doesn't get anywhere.

So I try to nudge things .... a little bit here and there...sticking to where I have knowledge. I've found the capacity to research means I can compete by being thoroughly informed.

It is harder face to face because I carry so much in my head it tends to lose my audience, though having taught much of my career, a good lesson plan well-prepared keeps me out of trouble and effective.

I still rant.... I'm inclined to be very pedantic at times, and have to watch hard. Word processors give more time to think things through (better than tippex and a typewriter where some letters were crackly), but I have to be careful with email.

But I do hold that you can influence things if you are prepared to take things slowly, a small shove at a time.  And if you make sure you have your facts absolutely right, and some balance (much harder). I have published books and I have affected change. Certainly not made a lot of friends - and no honours - too forthright and controversial. Blessing is I cannot do the social or friendship thing anyway.

So don't stop caring. Its what keeps life going.

What I find very odd in todays climate is:

Most peasant's (everyone not a millionaire is a peasant in my world) accept that taxes need to be paid, and for the vast majority don't mind doing. I too accept this. However most people disagree about volume of said tax. Most wealthy folk think they are above paying tax, or the required amount.

So as a state, we have collected huge quantities of cash from peasants and millionaires. What do people want to spend said taxes on?

I suppose it is universal that people want to spend lots on education & health. However after these:

Roads? people say let the motorist pay.

Trains? people say let the commutor pay.

Public Sector Workforce? people say nay, they are all lazy looters.

Arts? Is only for the Rich, let them pay.

Students? They are scroungers let them work

Benifits? They are lazy, lash them with the slave stick. Make them work for free, they will sharp find jobs.

mmmmmm So I pressume the mojority of NT's want to give the cabinet and politicians larger income? Well apparently no they don't wan't that.

I genuinely believe we'ave got a society that is based around jealousy and bellittle'ing anyone whom doesnt have 4.2 set up. People know what they don't want taxes to be spent on, but no one wants to say what it should be spent on. Sometimes I think people are so arrogant they think they will never need to claim, so it doenst matter if it's not there. Do people think they are immune to illness, cancer and company bankrupcy?

I've been in a situation were I've payed large quantities of taxes (never 40%tho), nowadays I barely pay tax due to low income. I would prefer the money I've paid in taxes to help people in whatever form it takes. I've been on JSA twice as a youngster and it certainly isnt the easy ride it's made out to be.

Somehow I need to stop caring. 

I have the same problem, Goatworshipper.

And wish I knew the answer to the what to do question - as individuals we're powerless to change anything, and becoming an agent for change would, to some extent, mean becoming the type of person of so dislike.

So, I shake my fist at the world, and try to roll with the hardships imposed on me (I am on benefits).

Im not sure wether to put this in here, or maybe start a new thread. Here goes:

When I read or hear the news a lot of the time it makes me feel very frustrated. I can see nothing but constant scapegoatism, lies and deciet.The latest thing thats annoying me is the housing benifit and under 25 age group situation. I found the Jimmy Carr thing annoying, more so the hypocracy of Cameron. I had discussions about tax avoidance with my family today and it just got out of hand. People getting emotional and ranting about situation that non of us can control. 

These kind of topics make me feel annoyed, nervous and a bit sick. While I'm ok financially I understand that it could go wrong at any minute and I have to claim benifits.  

I find it very difficult to avoid things like the BBC's website etc. Im not the kind of person who can go through life being ignorant. However, I feel the time has come to try and tackle this issue.  Do other people share this frustration and how do they deal with it?

Personally I don't have a clue, but I know I need to do something.

I can see exactly how that would work. When people get passionate it seems to overide common sense and they only look to a part of an argument that fits their needs. I'd actually love to be able to study for the rest of my life, some Theology, Philosophy, Physics, Anthroplolgy, Pyschology etc etc. One may dream

I genuinely don't see the difference between justice and revenge, I've noticed this inffuriates people. I've got one friend who'll discuss and debate this kind of topic. To be around people for extended periods of time I feel I need to remain silent or be someone else. Im prepaired to do neither. I was with an extended family member for about an hour and a half today and Brievik came up in conversation and I was asked what I thought about it. After declairing that I think he was more sane than the chancillor, and saying I see the logic in what he done, even tho I don't agree with it. I was just looked at as though I was a fool. I was basing my perspective around legal deffiniations and my (limited) knowledge of pychiatric disorders. I wasn't being ideological in the slightest

I am an atheist but took  theology A level and got top marks. I went to a religious school and found that the others got lower marks in Theology than myself, and I was the only atheist in the class!!! Maybe it is because, being an atheist, I can step back and see religion through an impartial lens, which means I can be more analytical of the different arguments and less blinkered by any one doctrine.

Scorpion0x17 said:

I've lost more than one job by being too honest like that. Really F***ING P***ES ME OFF!

Do you get "you must believe in something!" too? As though it's impossible to exist without a belief system.

Yes I've lost a job for being overtly truthful in the past. Highlighting corruption doesnt go down very well. 

I frequently get the "you must believe in something" line. If repeatedly pushed for a response my usual repsonse is "I believe that the laws of physics and other sciences disproves the exsistance of your god". If pushed again (normally this would be "you believe in Science") I will respond refer them to Max Stirner's - The Ego & His Own, which tends to upset folk for pointing out the obvious, and say "my ideals are temporary and suite me at this point in time, due to circumstance much like yourself".

(Max Stirner outline if anyones interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ego_and_Its_Own )

Goatworshiper said:

It didnt go down fantastically well when I highlighted the weakness' of most of my team. It wasnt at all done in a vindictive context, but I suggested that some of the music teachers actually knew less than the students about music technology topics they were teaching. The point of me bring this issue up, was so we could plan better and I could be available to help members of staff that needed the most help. I also find people do not like to be told how to improve if you are heiracically positioned beneath them.

I've lost more than one job by being too honest like that. Really F***ING P***ES ME OFF!

Digressing slightly, I've noticed that peole don't understand how I'm an atheist that find's theology interesting. I noticed that lots people absolutely despise that I don't have any kind of belief system.

Do you get "you must believe in something!" too? As though it's impossible to exist without a belief system.

Meant to add: It's interesting that you used the word Scapegoat. I've got an urge to research the history behind Scapegoat's in both a theological and social sense. I'm going to a buy a book on it once I've read the pile I purchased recently. I fancy getting a Scapegoat included on a sleeve im going to get done (tattoo).

Yes I agree Hope. We do tend to analyze thing's to the n'th degree. I have noticed over the years that people don't like critical analysis. I work with musicians and actors and if thier not getting little applauses then they spit the dummy. I had an appraisel at work a few years ago, and I was open and honest about my weakness' (I have plenty, and I'm well aware of them). However It didnt go down fantastically well when I highlighted the weakness' of most of my team. It wasnt at all done in a vindictive context, but I suggested that some of the music teachers actually knew less than the students about music technology topics they were teaching. The point of me bring this issue up, was so we could plan better and I could be available to help members of staff that needed the most help. I also find people do not like to be told how to improve if you are heiracically positioned beneath them.

I can completly understand what Spektral is saying too. I frequently read articles and want to talk about them, I find them exciting but most people are ambivilent. I must admit when I worked in construction (as an apprentice in my teens), I was driven to distraction with peoples small talk. Im frequently surprised by how little people read, especially as I work in Education. I'm dyslexic and sometimes reading can be quite a chore (although very rewarding). My line manager always comments about reading books and how she "never has time". I do however notice she has plenty of time for her tan, nails, eyelash extension etc. I can't comprehend not reading :-$