Published on 12, July, 2020
Hi guys,
I don't have autism, but I strongly suspect my boyfriend does so I am here asking for some advice. He also thinks he might have autism.
A) getting a diagnosis
Although he strongly suspects he has autism, but is reluctant to go through the effort of getting diagnosed as he doesn't see the benefit. I recently got diagnosed with dyspraxia, and found it made me feel relieved and better about myself to have a diagnosis, and better able to handle it. He doesn't understand these reasons. Would someone please give me an argument that might persuade him to get diagnosed?
He could get it done through his work place but he is worried about the potential impact on his career.
B) Communicating Needs
I have gone through a difficult time lately, and he can be what appears to be thoughtless or mean. I ask him to put himself in my shoes, and see how he would feel if I said those things to him. He told me he doesn't understand, he can't do that. I feel very hurt at times, even though I don't think he can help it, and it causes problems. Does anyone have any communication tips for me, for me to tell him that I need him to do certain things for me because I don't feel well without making him feel like I am a nuisance or that I am blaming him?
Getting a diagnosis of autism is a very personal thing which can be life changing as well as pretty traumatic. It can be an extremely positive thing but it is also often accompanied by a lot of loss and grief, so it has to be a personal choice.
It is not a good thing to try to persuade somebody to get a diagnosis. Nobody, other than the actual person, can say whether they think it will be a good thing for them or not. If he was asking for reasons why other people decided to go for a diagnosis and what their experiences were etc, that's a different matter but it doesn't sound (from what you have written) that he is asking that.
As for communication tips. It sounds like you want some tips on how to control his behaviour to make him behave in ways that meet your needs. Maybe a taser gun? Every time he doesn't behave how you want him to you can give him an electric shock and eventually he may behave how you want him to without the gun.
If you're upset about something, then it would be more helpful for you to deal with that. Face it, do some inner work around it or whatever you need to do but don't expect someone else to make it go away by giving that responsibility to them. Even if your boyfriend did do these things that you want him to do, so that you could feel better, it would only be temporary and what if he's not around the next time you get upset, how will you stop being upset then?
You can't control everybody into doing what you want and I'm sure your boyfriend can't be with you all the time.
The NHS provide free counselling services which are often very good. It might be worth your while contacting them and they'll be able to give you some support around how to manage your emotions etc. When you take your focus off your boyfriend, and put it back with yourself, you can find ways to learn to deal with these situations more effectively and I'm sure your relationship and communication with your boyfriend will improve dramatically. And if he sees you taking responsibility for yourself and taking such good care of yourself, he might be so impressed that he decides to start looking into the possibility of getting a diagnosis. And when he does, you can direct him here where he'll get lots of support and he will be luckier than most of us, because he'll have your loving support as well which is priceless. Many of us dream we had a loving partner to support us with our 'autism'. He's a lucky guy as I'm sure you are too to have him in your life. It's not always easy being an aspie or being in a relationship with one but he's fortunate that he has such an understanding and accepting partner in his life. Best of luck.
The NHS provide free counselling services which are often very good.
Come now BlueRay, working in the NHS as you do...you must know this advice (above) is misleading. The NHS do not offer free counselling, the best they offer is group or short term CBT via IAPT, and this is only through referral by a GP for an existing and 'diagnosed' mental illness, such as anxiety or depression for example. And IAPT services are certainly not (sadly) available for people to use to routinely discuss or seek advice regarding their relationship difficulties.
Hi AngelDust
I didn’t realise the IAPT (Improving Access to Psychological Therapies) Services were so sketchy across the country.
They provide an excellent service where I currently live and also in other areas of the country where I’ve worked and lived. The IAPT services that I’m familiar with are self referring services or people can be referred by their gp or any other support worker. They provide a counselling service as well as CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy) and other therapies. The IAPT service was established by the government in 2005, so it maybe that it hasn’t reached all areas yet or maybe some areas don’t offer a full range of services. However, the OP (original poster) could contact her local gp surgery and they’ll be able to sign post her to local services. There will be some kind of counselling support service available as local authorities have a big drive now to offer preventative services so it would be unusual for her to not be offered some kind of support.
It doesn’t sound like the OP uses local services routinely and certainly if she doesn’t address her need for support regarding getting her emotional/psychological needs met, it will lead to depression and anxiety. I have used this service myself towards the end of my last relationship when I was in a similar situation to the OP so I have no reason to believe she won’t be offered similar support. I have certainly never come across an IAPT service that required users to have a diagnosis of a mental health condition. They are more about the prevention of mental health conditions.
That’s interesting to note, however, that IAPT service are not the same across the country. I never considered that, thank you. They have always provided an excellent service wherever I’ve lived in the U.K, however, I’ll bare that in mind from now on. Thank you.
AngelDust oooops, only just seen this.
No, metaphysical principles don’t clash with any other therapeutic approach or any religious beliefs etc. In fact, metaphysical principles will strengthen a person’s religious beliefs or any therapeutic approach which works for them. So no, I don’t ever find any clashes with my work. Metaphysical principles are what underlies all other principles.
Also, to answer your other question ~ what book or resources would be a good starting point for somebody to learn more? This is a great question and I’m glad you’ve asked because it has got me thinking.
It’s not easy for me to answer because I never learned this stuff, it’s how I’ve always thought so when I pick up a metaphysical book, I understand it straight away but I know that’s not always the case for most other people. Also, it’s more of an action, a knowing by experience, so I would maybe first of all point to the work of Byron Katie. She has a four question approach called ‘the work’ that I use a lot on myself, clients, family, friends and anybody and everybody really. She has some great books, including ‘Loving what is’ including tons of excellent YouTube clips demonstrating her work. You can also download the worksheets from her website for free and she even has a phone service she offers to people who want to do the work with someone experienced in it.
And I don’t know what other books to recommend but maybe ‘The Basic Principles of the Science of Mind’ by Dr Frederick Bailes, might be a good place to start.
If you have any other questions, I’m always happy to answer and I’m really glad you asked the above question as it has put me on a mission to seek out some books/resources that might be good for somebody just getting interested in this stuff.
No, I wasn’t a counsellor. When I work in mental health services, I assess patients newly referred to the service and decide whether we accept them into the service and if we do, which pathway they will go down ~ either psychosis or non psychosis. When a patient is assigned to me I will carry out whatever tests I think are necessary to determine what their ‘condition’ is. Once I’ve finished, I will discuss the results with the psychiatrist. He/she will make a final decision on the diagnosis then the three of us will discuss a treatment plan. This could involve cbt or lots of other therapeutic approaches and I will either carry these out myself or in conjunction with a psychotherapist or I might get a support worker involved. It depends on the client and their needs.
Have you heard of Louise Hay? She might be a good introduction into metaphysics but I’ll also have a think about what might be a good starter book and I’ll get back to you.
(I put this reply in the wrong place earlier, so have re-posted it)
I am doing my absolute utmost here and from what I can gather, (from my perspective) it appears that you may be misreading what I say, challenging what you have therefore perceived me to have said, and then when I then suggest and provide evidence that supports (or explains) the point I am trying to make, you are then experiencing this subsequent evidence as a hurtful attack. And which, on further reflection, I am likely (in places) doing the exact same thing.
There are also times when you have completely understood the point I was making and outright disagreed with it, to which I have again answered you in an attempt to further clarify or evidence my belief/position. It seems you have experienced these responses as further hurtful attacks too.
I have attempted to provide the evidence you have repeatedly requested, on any and all points that I have offered that you have subsequently repeatedly challenged, to the best of my ability. I don't believe I have left one of your challenges or questions to me hanging and unanswered. What has become apparent to me is that, no matter what evidence or justifications I provide, you seem intent on further challenging in ways I have felt to be increasingly tenuous.
I will continue to answer any queries you put to me to the best of my ability. And will continue to do so.
In addition to continuing to challenge or question posts where I see fit.
I think you believe I was being unfair to BlueRay very early on in this debate when I said that the 'knowledge and information she has/is providing on this subject is not congruent with the knowledge base I would expect a professional therapist/counsellor to posses.' If this was being unfair on BlueRay, I think she would have told me.
And however controversial or however much it may pain you. I still believe this (statement) to be true.
However, I have never intended to hurt you at any point and for this I apologise.
I have (noted but) found your latter personal accusations hard to accept when, from my perspective, I do think the 'crimes' you have accused me of so eloquently, I genuinely can and I actually do believe can just as equally and directly be applied to you.
YES, that makes sense! (I have to add 'sort of sense' because I don't know anything about Metaphysics at all.) Thank you.
I didn't think (from info you have kindly offered) that you used (or knew of ) different 'therapies' and (sorry NAS24859 but this lead me to strongly believe..) that you were not a 'Counsellor' (in the classic sense) in the NHS. Which, in my opinion, is 100% consistent with my earlier premise, the confirmation of which you have just provided.
I am going to have a good research into Metaphysics over the coming months though (the 'therapeutic' approach not the school of Physics) as I do find it fascinating.
Can you recommend any good 'starter/introductory' books about Metaphysics I could read, please?
Yeah, that makes sense. The more psychological approach is not exactly an approach but a way to help the client better understand their situation. It’s not easy to describe but if I described their situation in metaphysical terms they might not understand it so I might explain it first in a more psychological way then as we move through whatever we use to bring them to the cause, they’ll naturally begin to see it from a metaphysical perspective but in the beginning it might be easier for them to see it from a more psychologic perspective. So I suppose my choice of words weren’t the best to describe what I do as I don’t use different therapies but I might help them see their situation from a more psychological perspective to begin with.
Ps.. what I should have said here is:
AngelDust said:I did provide the evidence your requested. You accused me of suggesting you were trying to push me off here personally, when that 'original point of challenge' comment was very clearly generalised. ie my response/evidence was therefore; No, this was not intended at you specifically, this was a generalised comment.
No, this was not intended at you specifically sorry, this was a generalised comment.
Ever get that feeling you are talking to yourself and no ones home...
I put this reply in the wrong place (I posted a reply to myself!) so have moved it.
NAS24859 said:I recognise that the links you sent mention mental health services in general and this has helped me immensely as I know understand it would be useful to clarify what your statements in posts mean.
Yes, this is what I had intended, which I had thought was evident when my original 'point of challenge' was:
AngelDust said:Most professionals I encounter working in Mental Health are only too painfully aware of just how much the NHS and the Mental Health Service is failing is patients, nationally.
For which you then directly criticised (me) for having a negative attitude.
NAS24859 said:When I asked for the quotes of what I had I said that caused you offense I was simply asking for your help to understand you better, I wasn’t arguing with you. I wanted to read the quotes as being able to see what paragraphs or sentences hurt you and having you explain why would have helped me to hopefully phrase my points in a way that was less hurtful to you in future. I was trying to work with you rather than against you. It’s a shame you felt unable to provide the evidence I asked for.
I did provide the evidence your requested. You accused me of suggesting you were trying to push me off here personally, when that 'original point of challenge' comment was very clearly generalised. ie my response/evidence was therefore; No, this was not intended at you specifically, this was a generalised comment.
NAS24859 said:I’d appreciate it if could start to consider how your posts impact upon other people and in turn be a lot kinder in your use of language when you respond to posts, especially to me.
I will do so, duly noted. However, I could just as easily say the same to you.
And, equally, I have found many of your quibbles with me appear to be over semantics rather than informing or reflecting upon the deeper issue at hand (i.e the quality of Mental Health Services/provision, which is what I had thought we were all discussing) which, one could also reflect, is no less an example of 'dog with a bone' mentality than I myself may have portrayed.
I apologise if my user name comment was a mistake...to my knowledge I have never previously upset any poster on here in the four years I have been posting (other than NAS36741) and this therefore was the only (of 2) theories I have on why you would feel the need to repeatedly wade in and defend what you perceived to be an 'attack' on BlueRay. And thought I would offer it as a curve ball, in case it was true. You never know, it could have been?
The thought did not even cross my mind to look at any of your previous posts and therefore I have no prior knowledge of you. Good point however, this is perhaps something I should have done first!
What I will offer is that I was challenging BlueRay as some of what he/she posted was not congruent with my own lived (20+ years) experience of NHS Mental Health Services (professionally, not as a service user.)
The 'Attack Vs Challenge' thing is problematic. What you view as an attack I view as my having challenged, questioned or outright disagreed with things BlueRay has said, (alongside agreed in places too) from what I had perceived as one 'professional' to another.
I don't agree, however, that challenging, questioning or disagreeing with someone is 'attacking them.' If I did I could just as easily accuse you of having attacked and continuing to attack me.
Are you attacking me or are you 'challenging, questioning and disagreeing' with me? In which case, please do explain what makes my posts 'attacking' and yet yours not?
AngelDust I'm assuming the troll comment was a mistake? If not, if you look up my username you will see I have been on these board since my diagnosis late last year.
Thank you for replying to my request for help from you. I’ve looked at the links you provided and they don’t specifically discuss NHS counseling services, which is what I thought we were discussing when I replied, so it’s no wonder I couldn't find the posts I thought you were referring to. I recognise that the links you sent mention mental health services in general and this has helped me immensely as I know understand it would be useful to clarify what your statements in posts mean.
When I asked for the quotes of what I had I said that caused you offense I was simply asking for your help to understand you better, I wasn’t arguing with you. I wanted to read the quotes as being able to see what paragraphs or sentences hurt you and having you explain why would have helped me to hopefully phrase my points in a way that was less hurtful to you in future. I was trying to work with you rather than against you. It’s a shame you felt unable to provide the evidence I asked for.
It does comes across as though you perceive differences of opinions to be attacks on you personally, even when there isn’t anything attacking in the posts. This then leads you to become defensive and attacking other posters. When you stated you felt I was trying to shame you and push you off these boards your comments did upset me, as that isn’t what I am like. I have tried to be as sensitive as possible in my posts but I don’t believe you show others that respect to others even though you want them to be respectful to you. You did come across as brusque, rude and attacking in your comments, even though neither BlueRay or me weren’t being like that to you. I noticed in one of your post you did mention that you can be like a dog with a bone when you don’t understand something and that is clear from this thread, however, it doesn’t excuse your behavior. I’d appreciate it if could start to consider how your posts impact upon other people and in turn be a lot kinder in your use of language when you respond to posts, especially to me.
PS, Just to further clarify my 'question' reply (I hope), I think where I am coming from is: if I believed in (and had experience of) the effectiveness of a metaphysical approach to mental health, then I would really struggle (personally) to see the point of using any other type of therapeutic approach with clients, as all other approaches would seem superfluous in comparison? Hope this makes sense?
Oops, I replied in the wrong place
Oh dear NAS24859, I am finding your arguments increasingly tenuous. But if you insist…
NAS24859 said:Would you mind quoting the statements where you felt I was trying to push you out? I didn't feel I was and was simply challenging the information you gave when I thought it was incorrect or I had a difference of opinion. As such, I am keen to find out what statements I made which were perceived that way.
I think you will find that, from the larger context from which my ‘push out’ statement was taken, I clearly refer to this as a generalisation.
NAS24859 said:You say you wanted your premise to be challenged to help you see things from other peoples points of view but you seem upset when others do this. For example, you stated as fact that the NHS only deliver CBT therapy. I gave you the fact from my local NHS, which showed this was incorrect as that 2 out of the 6 therapies in my area are not CBT.
I would suggest you have a good read of this previous conversation in which I clearly said…IAPT don’t offer other therapies other than CBT but they can refer into other NHS Mental Health Teams to access other therapeutic approaches. I therefore reiterate my point: IAPT don’t offer other approaches other than CBT but, and I quote myself again’ Other therapy approaches are hanging on for grim death in small pockets throughout the NHS which thankfully IAPT is still choosing to refer some of their clients to.’ I therefore did not, as you claim, write that the NHS only offer CBT, I stated IAPT only offer CBT.
NAS24859 said:I've kept my eye out for the masses of these posts over the last 5 days to help me understand where you are coming from but have not been able to see these comments in the volumes you express. Could you provide me with the links?
Of course, no problem. All the following posts (sadly) describe difficulties, dissatisfaction and frustration with Mental Health Services and lack of effective or appropriate support available. I only went back 2 ‘pages’ though as there are just too many to list…
http://community.autism.org.uk/f/health-and-wellbeing/11981/how-do-you-tell-your-therapist
http://community.autism.org.uk/f/adults-on-the-autistic-spectrum/12075/non-diagnosis
http://community.autism.org.uk/f/parents-and-carers/12071/nhs-treatment
http://community.autism.org.uk/f/miscellaneous-and-chat/12092/self-diagnosed-as-autistic-1-year-for-an-nhs-diagnosis
What I would like to put to you however is that, I think, NAS24859, that you are actually NAS36741 under a new account and you didn’t much like a reply I gave you a two weeks back…and you are perhaps therefore desperate to stick the boot in to me ever since in any (increasingly) tenuous way that you can?
Who watches the watchers?
That would be me.