A sense of entitlement

Hi Arran, I don’t really know that much about trade unions and politics etc, I just know that I was brought up around the working men’s clubs era, and works trips etc. I came from a close knit mining community, and family’s/friends helped each other out a lot more then than they appear to do now. I still continue to live that way, wherever I live, but when I’m in my home town, where I am now, I like to actively go out and encourage community support  etc in whatever way I can. More so to try and make sure the vulnerable people in our community don’t get forgotten and to encourage friendships etc. Social services etc can only ever do so much but if we work together to look out for our neighbours, we can make sure we all have at least comfortable lives where we get our basic needs met. My hometown now is very diverse but on the whole, we get along pretty well. More could be done to get rid of a lot of the unnessary fear, isolation and to build better relationships with the refugees etc that have come to live in our town but we’re getting there and there are many local support groups working hard with the local authorities to make improvements for all the residents so things are definitely looking up and the local authority are very keen to encourage a community spirit that seems to have got lost over the years since the end of the Second World War but we do still have a relatively strong community spirit here, we do tend to come out and help each other when we need it, no matter who it is that needs the help. 

He has the audacity to vote like for his own posts. There is a flaw in the forum software that enables users to do this.

You make a very good point about the community spirit and social cohesion. Back in the decades of heavy industry we had factory sports clubs and coal miners brass bands etc. All history now.

I think the trade unions are also just as much to blame as Thatcher by failing to adapt to changes in the economy and employment. There are very big and strong unions for public sector workers but it's rare for people who work in the private sector to be in a union. The unions were able to create the miners strike in the 1980s but they are utterly clueless when it comes to the gig economy and would rather remain inside their comfort zone of nurses and teachers in full time employment.

I honestly think that BlueRay is a Tory plant/DWP adviser taking the piss? 

One thing I've learned from this thread is that even Aspies can be right-wing ******. 

[Edited by Ayshe Mod]

I lived through the 60s.  She was right.  Then came the late 70s and 80s, and suddenly all the greedy ******* thought '*** this.  I don't care about anyone else.  I have a sense of entitlement.'

Edited by Ayshe Mod

Typical MattBucks.  Can't come up with a decent reply, so goes to the social media default of clicking 'Unlike'.  1st item on my bucket list. [ Removed by moderator]

[Edited by Ayshe Mod]

Hi oktanol. Do I mean what? That in comparison to pre nhs and pre the national social security system, we now live a pampered life and that maybe this is where the entitlement attitude has grown out from? Prior to the nhs, you only saw doctors etc if you could afford one and if you couldn’t work, you were thrown in the work house. I don’t think people had an ‘entitlement attitude’ then, so I was just wondering if it could be traced back to the introduction of the nhs and SS system. People on here know far more about this stuff than me, so I was just wondering, if that could be a cause. 

I thought that somebody involved in this discussion, who knows more than me,  might be able to say whether this could be where the attitude started to grow. 

I don’t know anything about people being lazy, I must have missed that part of the conversation. I was referring to what Matt said at the beginning of the post, where he was wondering where the entitlement attitude might have came from. Sorry, I’m a bit lost with that last bit and I’m about to do some drilling now so don’t have time to catch up on any comments I missed. 

I’ve just realised, maybe my choice of words or word, when I said ‘pampered’ gave off some kind of impression. I apologise for using that word, my sociology teacher used to use it, I didn’t know it meant other things. Sorry. I’ve stopped using the dictionary so much to check and double check that the words I’m choosing are the most appropriate and clearly I’m making mistakes. But thank you, I’ll remember not to use that word any more in this way. 

The Mail's reputation is well-renowned. 

******

[Edited by Ayshe mod]

Hear hear.  Short memory, some people.

Gosh, somehow I'm a bit shocked. Are you being cynical or do you really mean that? I'm just asking because I believe to remember that you were also telling people how much entitled they are to receive help, so somehow that doesn't add up because most could probably not afford to pay for it privately, but maybe I confuse it with someone else. Living in Norway now I have certainly not got the impression so far that people here are lazier or something compared to UK or the US. 

I’m sure Bicycle didn’t mean that nexus9, I’m sure your mother isn’t any of those things. 

This is a very emotive subject for a lot of people. Even my poor choice of words, caused a bit of a rumpus. I don’t usually get involved in these kinds of discussions but I remember my sociology teacher using those words. I didn’t realise they were bad words to use. They made it appear that I didn’t have gratitude for all the support I’m getting from the nhs and the benefits system and social services, which couldn’t be further from the truth. So I would say take lightly anything that’s said on a thread discussing such an improve topic. 

Hi Bicycle. I’m currently not working. I had a break down, starting at the end of 2016 and I’ve more or less been in bed ever since, until recently. 

I am very gratefuly in receipt of Universal Credit. It doesn’t quite pay all of my bills and leaves nothing left for food, because of rent arrears and some other money I pay to the council. However, I have a roof over my head and for that I am eternally grateful. 

I have never knocked the system. I can see that my choice of words may have lead you to think I was. But I can assure you, I most certainly do not knock the system, quite the opposite. If you read back on some of my previous posts you will find that I highly praise the benefits system, that despite it not being an easy system to navigate, I am extremely grateful to it. There is not a single night when I don’t go to bed and wake up when I don’t express gratitude for the opportunity to have slept in a bed. It was my work coach at the job centre who arranged for me to have a support worker from the local social services wellbeing team. 

Since then I have come on in leaps and bounds. My work coach and support worker have given me the support I have always needed but never got. I don’t think I could be more grateful to the benefits system if I tried. In fact I have been slated on here for being so grateful to them. I’ve just come back from an event at my local job centre and I’ve come away with even more support and opportunities to get back outside, get walking, mixing with other people etc. 

They’re helping me set up my own business because although I was excellent at my job as an independent social worker and mental health practitioner, since getting the autism diagnosis, we have realised that as much as I love the work, it’s just not right for me. 

My long term plans do include getting back working with those people, but in a way that I can manage and sustain. 

I have no idea how I will get my sprinter van I just know I will. I have never failed at getting what I want in life so why would I start failing now? 

Yes, I am living off benefits and soup kitchens and food banks etc at the moment, but this is and always was only a temporary situation, until I got well again and then I would go back to supporting myself again financially. 

But yes, I can see how my choice of words may have indicated that I wasn’t grateful to either the nhs or the benefits system. The nhs gave me my diagnosis which turned my life around so although I don’t generally see gp’s or use health services, I feel I owe my life to them for giving me the diagnosis and I will certainly be doing something to give back. As with the benefits system, they want me to talk to a bunch of politicians or something about how they have helped me, which I will do because I want to show my gratitude. So yeah, sorry for causing any miss understanding, I definitely couldn’t be any more grateful than I am for all the help I’m getting. My support worker thought I might be embarrassed, getting help from them when I used to be a social worker in the same authority. I was too grateful to even consider being embarrassed but I wouldn’t be anyway. I don’t see any shame in accepting help when you need it. 

I’m not making any argument. I was simply stating that you can trace this sense of entitlement back to the start of the national health service and the benefits system. I’m not saying this was right or wrong. My choice of words were very leading, I agree, I take them back. What I meant was, you can trace this attitude back to the start of the new nhs. It’s an observation. Not an argument. I was simply wondering if this ‘theory’ (for want of a better word) could be true? I don’t know. I don’t follow sociology/politics etc that closely. 

The Daily Mail is well renowned for lies and **** right wing views. 

[Edited by Ayshe Mod]

They were murdered! 

Exactly, people’s expectations were raised and they now demanded not only free specs, but ones that looked lovely as well, all in the space of 30 years and those same expectations continue to rise while personal responsibility continues to drop. 

That’s an interesting idea, well said. However, it is imperative that people help themselves first. Even on an aeroplane, parents are advised to put the oxygen mask on themselves before they attend to their children. 

The rich have always got richer, because of their mindsets and they will carry on getting richer. That doesn’t prevent poor people from getting richer as well though and many poor people do get richer. 

I agree, there was much more social cohesion and support amongst neighbours etc in the pre war era. I am always working towards getting back to these times. I consciously smile and say hello to everyone I meet and stop and speak to those who want to chat. I get involved in local projects, either for my own benefit or as a volunteer or to get involved in some way, even if it’s only to say hello. I go to the dementia cafes and care homes, just to say hello to people, to get to know them. I grew up in a tight night community so this is what I know. I met a man today, at a job centre event, we chatted and bumped into each other twice. I love connecting with new people. I have to look after myself, too much human contact is not good for me but now I have my diagnosis, I can manage my energy levels better. But yeah, I love community spirit and friendships. 

We are living in incredible times. It blows my mind how much help I’m getting towards starting my own business. Working in your normal typical work environment just didn’t work for me. I couldn’t sustain employment for stretches of more than three years and I didn’t know why. Now I understand why and can see that I would fare much better in employment now with adjustments etc, but alas, I’ve decided to work for myself anyway and the local council and other services are falling over backwards to help me and people like me who would like to work for purse but haven’t got a clue how to go about that. The country has been through some incredibly difficult years, since Thatcher came to power. Nobody can deny that. I’m from a mining family and mining village and was around when all the pits started to close. There was a lot of community support around still at that time though which is sadly barely noticeable now. 

Certainly my local council are working towards a more preventative and community based model of support now and I’m truly grateful for their ongoing support to me. I found out today of many low coating comminity based activities such as yoga, music, art and getting active outside. So I’m very happy to see more and more community projects springing up and more and more people getting benefit from them. I don’t know where I’d be today without the help of my support worker, in bed still probably, provided they continued to pay my rent. 

Governmemt figures, which are publicly available, show that there is more money going into the economy than out and that the scaremongering about benefits frauds etc, is just that. As someone said, it’s a great distraction technique to blame those who don’t have a voice to defend themselves. 

Balls.  You claim benefits.  You're obviously pampered on them.  Give them up for people who need them - and go get a bloody job!  People like you make me sick.  You moan about the pampered society.  And meanwhile, you live off the taxes I pay.