Escaping the system

Yes a bit like fake it till you make it. I was suspicious of overly happy people. I think accepting oneself also helps toward inner happiness. 

Yep! Nothing else to add. Yep!

when im in nature i feel more...de-stressing, calm, and almost spiritual so yes thats probably the feeling of being connected... but happiness i dunno if id say thats there.

happiness feels different i think, deeper... perhaps im just depressed and what i think is happiness is just the times that i motivate myself and then feel badass and that perhaps lifts the depression and hence makes me feel happy. so happiness to me is deluding one self into things... into thinking your badass, into motivating yourself, perhaps lift a bit of weights and make your body buff and delude yourself into thinking its buffer than it is. happiness a lift of mood that breaks the depressive norm, but to lift that mood you need to delude yourself in order to lift yourself up through that.

but yeah perhaps there is a state of higher happiness than that from none permanent depressed people that can go higher, and bipolars too as part of bipolar is not only a low but getting a super high too, so i guess theyd have a happiness beyond what i can imagine too before they get their big crash

Yes, I noticed an article about Italy and them actually paying people to move there (was it Sardinia?).  Really tempting but as a family we want to stay here.  Well, one of us wants to move to Canada where cannabis is legal but doesn't have the resources to make this happen - that's another story.  Plus I'd be concerned that the healthcare situation might be even worse.   

I think that even with a commune, there'd have to be private areas for each individual or family unit as we all need to retreat sometimes and some of it would be about avoiding too much social activity.  Maybe we need to be secular monks without monasteries?  An order set up to our own specific requirements?  No doubt I'm dreaming again. 

And yes, I was against the whole privatisation process when it happened and now, when things go wrong, this government talks about bailing out companies or giving people extra allowances to help them without actually addressing the problem they created.  Any socialist worth their salt would be crying out for a renationalisation programme but Keir won't be doing that,or anything like it.  :(     

I actually come from a small town in County Durham (Shildon) which is noted for being the cheapest place in the country for property.  So if anyone is working from home or can actually get a job in the vicinity, that might be worth a look.  Yes, all the social indicators (poverty, teenage pregnancy, unemployment etc) are dire, but there are some nice parts, we have some fond memories and our bath tin is still there somewhere.  My young niece actually just got a mortgage for a property in another town just down the road.  We do need to vote Dehenna Davison out though - Red Wall Tory.     

That’s interesting. I need to explore more of these things. There was a thing about ‘Findhorn’ on TV the other day - I want to find out more about that too. I’m sorry you’ve been unwell - hope you’re better now. 

There are websites of which I cannot remember the names but people who are running eco projects / crofts / small holding etc advertise for helpers. And you can offer your time and skills in return for accommodation and food. I really wanted to do it this year. I found one in the beautiful Hebrides but ill health got in the way. So you can get a bit of a taste for things or escape for a bit.

Ohhh I'm all over justgiving as we speak ;-P

Funnily enough I was only looking at crofts in Scotland the other week whilst thinking about these issues. Have you heard about the rural property situation in Italy at the moment? Apparently a lot of properties in certain rural areas of Italy are going very cheap as younger people can’t get work in those areas so are leaving to more populated areas. Some of them are REALLY cheap - although very run down admittedly. However I just don’t have the confidence to emigrate, and my son definitely doesn’t want to move abroad. We love the English countryside and weather and would hate to leave it.

The other option is commune type living - but being autistic communal stuff is very off-putting to us. It’s interesting though - the idea of some kind of autistic commune. Has it been tried I wonder? 

my eldest is renting and he feels that actually owning a house is a long LONG way off for him - if ever. 
You’re so right about Tory Govts and where there interests lie in terms of land ownership and power. The current energy crisis also shows just how powerless consumers actually are in the face of big companies. Essentials like housing and heating and water should never be in the hands of people for whom profit making is the only priority. 

  Maybe we should start a collective island fund for NDs only. 

Oh, I love the idea of getting free plants and would definitely be up for a plant swap.  "London Pride is a flower that's free" but lots of others propagate or divide easily too. 

When I was a kid and got taken to the park, I used to collect any crushed pieces of geranium and take them home to root.  There were always lots of pieces to collect, ball games being what they are, and I usually ended up with too many.  I remember the year of the special orange variagated geraniums but unfortunately nobody outside the family seemed to share my interest.  It was very cheap though.

There was another year when my dad brought home a load of seeds, unfortunately and naively having used up quite a chunk of his already meagre wages to buy them as he felt too ashamed to back out of the purchase once they told him the price.  My mother was furious as we were really struggling, but our back garden was full of colour that summer.  And we all remember the old bath tin that had been in our garden for years because that year it came to life with more conrflowers than I've eve seen concentrated in such a small space.   

When I say expensive, though, it's really about the land.  When I was growing up my windowsill wasn't big enough and now my garden isn't, although I'm starting to grow vertically too, to maximise the use of space. 

Guerilla gardening and phantom planting are fun though.  And I want our bath tin back too.  I suspect a neighbour pinched it because he was a bit of a magpie and handyman and my parents, once they became elderly, didn't use it anymore.  I still feel attached to it.  I'll maybe ask him about it (nice bloke but the sort who takes "rubbish" from others' yards and gardens, like a Borrower).    

I've got first dibs on any cheap Scottish Islands thank you very much! 

Fully agree, Kate.  These alternative ways of living are often blocked to us and likewise I think the Tories tend to close down such possiblities.  Let's face it, they're on the side of the few who already own vast tracts of our countryside, high value or more than one property and have a "Get orf our land!" attitude.    I'm no fan of Keir Starmer (he's certainly no Attlee!), but I'll have to vote Labour to block the Tories. 

I'd really like to create our own alternative sanctuary.  And that's what I think I'm attempting here in a small way with my little hermitage.  But it's just not big enough or alternative enough for us to feel truly comfortable.  And I'm getting too old for tent living, although I definitely agree that this should be a possibility.  Maybe our sanctuary should be expanded and also offer a very low key retreat to paying guests to become viable.  

Sadly, though, I think we're schooled (not educated) into conforming, which does the more divergent among us no favours.  Governments, educators and managers will still profess to be individualists and to encourage "outside the box" thinking, but very often whilst stamping on those who are already outside the box.  Plus, of course, what they mean by "individualist" is more of a Richard Branson type entrepreneur.  Or that people, being individuals, should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps", be able to afford private healthcare or work any job in an "every man for himself" type manner.  

In the workplace I soon got the message that I'm on the "discard pile" because those that get into managment roles are often inthe same mould - i.e. I did it all myself so you should be able to!  And I'm often just not able - my abilities lie elsewhere and don't fit easily into our current economy.    

I'm really, really interested in alternative lifestyles.  Just wish I could actually access more to bring us closer.  Any cheap Scottish islands for sale?

Nice to see you back kate kestrel. I think half way house is a good compromise! Do what we can with what we have to live a life which is closest to what we want.

Maybe the quest to escape the system is also a pursuit of happiness. Maybe we should just accept things as they are a bit more. 

I think in being autistic, I have strong tendencies towards authenticity and I feel how we currently live isn't authentic to being human. I think that might be a lot of my problem. 

Yes - it’s getting harder and harder to live on a low income. We have always lived quite frugally and we didn’t mind not having luxuries - we were never impressed by having the latest fashionable things or new stuff - we liked making stuff, buying second hand and recycling things etc. 

But now the basics are becoming so expensive it’s not that simple. I also really enjoy programmes like ‘New Lives in the Wild’ but let’s face it these people usually have enough money to BUY  land and/or property - which let’s face it requires a lot of money! 
When I was much younger I was very interested in New Age Travellers and ways of living more freely. Capitalism gives people very little room for escaping conventional forms of living. Another thing I’m interested in is Wild Camping - it’s quite extraordinary that it isn’t technically legal to do this in England. To think that you are breaking the law to just put up a tent and sleep in the countryside in most of the U.K. is pretty shocking. How much freedom do we actually have? If we can’t even do this without paying someone? 

I’ve come to the conclusion that only some sort of ‘half way house’ regarding this is possible. Also if you don’t own your own house then you’ll always be a slave to landlords. Rents now are unacceptably high, fuel bills are unacceptably high. 

Tory governments always make these issues worse. Don’t vote Conservative- they are inherently against alternative ways of living. Labour aren’t much better at the moment - but any government is still better than a Tory government. 

That's great news regarding your fruit trees.

I saw your earlier post regarding gardens. My previous house had some ground cover flowers that I was able to split and move to other areas which meant the gardening worked out cheap.

Years ago people used to give each other plants when theirs spread and resulted in a good variety without the extra cost.

I agree with this. It’s so freeing once you realise most of this stuff isn’t worth having. Capitalism is inherently toxic. 

I think happiness is individual for everyone and theres dif fervent tupes of happiness possibly. This feeling is a bit elusive for me anyway. Might be the autism or alexithymia. I just know, there are times when in nature where I feel connected. This might be seen as happiness. When I'm in a flow state I feel happy. Acceptance of a difficult situation I realise has made me feel a bit happy. These are not states I've been striving for - they just happen.

My tiny pear tree has done rather well this year (although I've had to prop it up to stop it toppling under the unexpectedly heavy crop).  So I'm going to phantom plant a couple more, which I'm doing, in my mind's eye, in remembrance of people I've loved and lost.  I'm hoping that someone will do the same for me when it's my turn to "shuffle off".  :) 

this chase for happiness is all a con too..... you cant be happy.... the only way you can be happy is to delude yourself into thinking your happy, but happiness simply doesnt exist in this world, human evolution got this far because of the pursuit of happiness, because we are all naturally unhappy and depressed and we seek to change the world and invent things to try create happiness but yet we never get it.the only way to get happiness is to delude yourself into thinking your happy, into thinking your better than what you are too. happiness is a delusion, anyone who is happy is deluded and likely thinks of themselves as beautiful too. in a way perhaps happiness is just another form of narcisism or schizophrenia? lol

Yes, for me it has been a rather painful process of adjusting and compromising.  Now, nearing 60, I'm very weary of it and I'd really like to make the "field dream" a reality.  Or maybe my phantom planting will take off as people benefit from the free fruit.  

And yes again.  The mindset needs to change.  It doesn't alter the fact that I'm living in a small semi in a suburban area with minimal space for gardening.  But my dwarf potted fruit trees (on the smallest rootstock I could find) are loaded with fruit this year.  :)