Grief or Traumatic Events

I seem to have an atypical response to death & dying.

For instance, when our first daughter was born (full term, difficulties at birth), I needed to know everything about what had happened, what the outcomes could be for different options, etc, before we made the decision to withdraw treatment.  We then threw ourselves into writing the non-religious funeral. We were sad, numb, but it was very logical, and I do remember still being able to share (very dark) jokes and laugh.  I seem to remember crying once a few months later and spoke to the GP at length about the process of grieving and grief-based depression (as opposed to clinical depression). I found what the GP said about peaks and troughs of grief (over months/years) useful as it allowed me to validate the grief continuing for some time.

When my mother died (long illness) there was no depression other than being a bit glum.  We were purely practical on doing the flat clearance, dealing with the estate, organising funeral and wake.

I suspect many would view me (and my wife) as 'cold', 'uncaring' or 'emotionless'.  We're not, it's just we don't react as most people do.

Of course, there is no such thing as a "typical reaction for people with ASD/Aspies", so that doesn't invalidate other peoples reactions, nor would I ever try to suggest that my reaction is the only right one.

Curiously, in the recent case of the baby whose parents wanted to take him to the USA for a new treatment, but where the hospital & courts ruled that he should be allowed to die, I fully, strongly supported their position in doing what they felt would be best for their child.  The fact that we took the opposite decision was right for only for us, in our particular circumstances and with our particular belief-set and mind-set.

Hi - I don't think there is a 'typical' response to death & dying, or to any other significant traumatic life events. No matter if a person has ASD or not, because we are all unique individuals. There are so many contributing factors which impact on how we/ I/everyone reacts under severe stress. 

Possibly though what may be unique to people with ASD under such conditions: our personal resources, reserves can already be stretched to the limit sometimes and any additional, unexpected, traumatic stressors have the potential to tip the balance.

I know for example that I can healthily manage extreme stressors sometimes. That will be when my foundation feels stable and I feel centered, mindful, at peace, happy etc. Maybe my job is going well? Maybe all my relationships are enjoyable? Reduced anxiety? Etc Etc Etc These act as buffers under stress - having a stable foundation helps.

BUT then - I can though come across insensitive to others, too logical at the same time. Maybe compartmentalising? So despite what's going on around me, I can continue with what I'm doing. But that doesn't mean that I don't care and will not be empathetic. Far from it. 

On other occasions under extreme stress - grief, job loss, relationship breakdown, a member of family unwell and so on - I can be knocked completely off balance. But that's because my own foundation was not steady at that point in time.

And for me at least - it's crucial to strive for, maintain and sustain simplicity, a very steady foundation. Otherwise all my normal activities of daily living and subsequent well being can be terribly affected under stress. 

But that's easier said than done. It's a bit like someone saying to you, 'just try and relax, switch off ...'. And before I know it, despite plenty of warning signs, I can't see the wood for the trees. I'm overwhelmed, overstimulated, living in chaos ...

If/ when this level of well being deteriorated to such an extent for a non ASD person (no known mental health problems either I mean), then troops would be mobilised to support. Because it would feel like a shock and hugely worrying for that person. 

But with ASD this can be such a frequent occurrence that I think a tolerance is built up. Can become the norm. And I know for myself at least that much of this is kept private, hidden. That requires a lot of control. 

There's something very strong and robust about me. On the other hand I feel immature, as if I've skipped vital developmental milestones (but appeared all fine at the time) and vulnerable. 

There always seems to be lots of contradictions on numerous levels.

I've written this post very quickly and hope comes across okay. Must now crack on with my jobs.

JEP

JEP said:

And for me at least - it's crucial to strive for, maintain and sustain simplicity, a very steady foundation. Otherwise all my normal activities of daily living and subsequent well being can be terribly affected under stress. 

Absolutely with you there.  Simplicity is crucial for me.  I have to keep responsibilities to an absolute minimum.  It's partly why I don't earn much and have never wanted to do things like run my own business or be a manager.  Also, having a small income imposes very natural constraints.  When I tell people what I can manage on, they think I'm kidding.  A few years ago, when I was married, I had a mortgage.  Even though it was affordable, it scared the hell out of me.  After our divorce, we sold the house - and I had a nice lump sum for the first time in my life.  And that, too, scared me.  It gave me choices that confused me.  It actually made me unhealthy for a time, until it was all gone.

JEP said:

But that's easier said than done. It's a bit like someone saying to you, 'just try and relax, switch off ...'. And before I know it, despite plenty of warning signs, I can't see the wood for the trees. I'm overwhelmed, overstimulated, living in chaos ...

If/ when this level of well being deteriorated to such an extent for a non ASD person (no known mental health problems either I mean), then troops would be mobilised to support. Because it would feel like a shock and hugely worrying for that person. 

But with ASD this can be such a frequent occurrence that I think a tolerance is built up. Can become the norm. And I know for myself at least that much of this is kept private, hidden. That requires a lot of control. 

Yes again.  People saying things like that to me - that's a red rag to a bull.  I have to try to explain to them - I'm a  cat, not a dog.  A bike, not a boat.  A Windows PC, not an Apple Mac.  When mum passed in April, everyone was worried for me because I was closer to her than anyone else, and had nursed her for her final six months.  Everyone knew she was like my foundation stone.  Yet for 5 weeks, I was completely as normal - just going about my business.  I think people were shocked and surprised by this.  My brother, on the other hand - NT, well-adjusted, happy family life, successful business, plenty of friends... he was the one who suffered.  Maybe guilt was a part of that.  I mean, even I suffer guilt feelings, though I don't need to.  And concern certainly seemed to be focused on him, because I was 'coping'.  Now, though - at 10 weeks - I'm breaking down.  You're right that we build up tolerances.   I've experienced more trauma in my life than I care to talk about with other people, who - like my brother - tend to 'normalise' experience:  'Oh yes... I was bullied at school.'  Like hell he was!  I lived in fear for six years, dreading each day.  Same quite often in the workplace.  I had such a bad experience with workplace bullying in my late 30s that I couldn't function properly for 6 months - and it still comes back to haunt me 20 years later.  All of it does.  So, the tolerances I've built up make me react to trauma differently now - often in a way that is misunderstood, and put down to 'coldness', etc.  But the reactions filter through, eventually.

JEP said:

There's something very strong and robust about me. On the other hand I feel immature, as if I've skipped vital developmental milestones (but appeared all fine at the time) and vulnerable. 

There always seems to be lots of contradictions on numerous levels.

Once again, spot on.  People see me at work (I work in care) and see me as extremely capable, empathetic, dedicated - STRONG.  But the truth is - I am immature.  I have missed important developmental milestones.  And I am vulnerable.  My care role brings out the best in me.  It keeps me, too, in a very 'young' frame of mind (I work with special needs).  I love acting the fool, behaving like a clown - getting a laugh.  I didn't need training for the role.  I just fitted in with these people.  Maybe they tune in to my vulnerabilities in the same way I tune in to theirs.  I, too, am full of contradictions.  I'm fond of quoting Walt Whitman on that score.  'Do I contradict myself?  Very well, then - I contradict myself.  I am large.  I contain multitudes.'

Most people are the same, at heart.  But many would never admit to it.

Again - what you say makes perfect sense, whether it's quickly-written or not 

Hi JEP,

I'm wondering if it does perhaps not really matter so much whether someone's diagnosis is "real" or someone doesn't have a diagnosis at all? I've got a professional one and can certainly see traits but don't quite agree that the way I am should be called a "disorder" or "disability". I had been hoping  that the people doing the assessment would see it that way too and when they didn't I got quite upset. But then reading a bit on here there are plenty of people feeling and behaving in ways I can totally identify with, including what you said yesterday: "I had wanted to say that on reflection I feel that I came across intolerant and would like to apologise. All I needed to do was switch of the 'Notifications' instead of receiving all new posts!" - this could be so much me... everything about it. I'm finding it helpful to be able to identify with someone somewhere when it comes to things where everybody I know in real life seems to feel and behave different from myself. Maybe try seeing it like that? I mean, you will be quite different from others who do have some sort of autism without doubt in many ways, so their advice/comments on something you struggle with may not be more useful to you than what someone says who is perhaps not really quite that autistic but feels the way you do about a specific issue. No matter who says something, you'll always have to decide if that works for you/applies to you or not.

I can see why you find the poems thing difficult, guess I would too, partly also because I have this lack of lacking empathy that seems to disqualify most on here from being proper Aspies (yourself included). If it hasn't stopped, have you told him this and asked to stop it, just plain and direct? Can't imagine he's doing that intentionally.

Hope you can get something out of this forum, more positives than negatives.

Hi JEP,

I'm wondering if it does perhaps not really matter so much whether someone's diagnosis is "real" or someone doesn't have a diagnosis at all? I've got a professional one and can certainly see traits but don't quite agree that the way I am should be called a "disorder" or "disability". I had been hoping  that the people doing the assessment would see it that way too and when they didn't I got quite upset. But then reading a bit on here there are plenty of people feeling and behaving in ways I can totally identify with, including what you said yesterday: "I had wanted to say that on reflection I feel that I came across intolerant and would like to apologise. All I needed to do was switch of the 'Notifications' instead of receiving all new posts!" - this could be so much me... everything about it. I'm finding it helpful to be able to identify with someone somewhere when it comes to things where everybody I know in real life seems to feel and behave different from myself. Maybe try seeing it like that? I mean, you will be quite different from others who do have some sort of autism without doubt in many ways, so their advice/comments on something you struggle with may not be more useful to you than what someone says who is perhaps not really quite that autistic but feels the way you do about a specific issue. No matter who says something, you'll always have to decide if that works for you/applies to you or not.

I can see why you find the poems thing difficult, guess I would too, partly also because I have this lack of lacking empathy that seems to disqualify most on here from being proper Aspies (yourself included). If it hasn't stopped, have you told him this and asked to stop it, just plain and direct? Can't imagine he's doing that intentionally.

Hope you can get something out of this forum, more positives than negatives.