Difficult Subject - Groping / Assaults

Hello Sgt R, sorry it has taken me a while to reply and to hear of your assault, that sounds really awful. I have found posting about my assault here has helped me to come to terms with it a bit better. I remember when I experienced mine I felt a kind of "numb shock", a feeling I had never experienced before, it seems reading your post you felt something similar. I don't think you should have any reason to feel guilty about his actions, but I can relate to those feelings. 

At first I was angry towards the policeman who came to hear my statement, but know he was only doing his job. I think part of the problem is that I made a literal understanding of I'm "making a statement". I understand why he needed to ask questions, but it would have been helpful if I had of know fully about the process beforehand. It took a lot of preparation to get me to the point of making the statement, and just felt all that effort had been waisted.

All the questions just built on my fears of how people would judge me further down the line, both in legal aspect and in a personal aspect. It is something that is a main anxiety with me all the time.

Random

Hi Sgt Romeo,

Thanks for sharing your experience with us which must be hard for you. Working for the police, you obviously are more knowledgeable in this area than myself but if you feel able to report this then it may help. If you would like to speak to us, then please don't hesitate to contact our helpline which you can also email. If you want to speak to the Samaritans they can also provide support. I hope that this helps you and please continue to post in the community as we are here to support you

Sofie Mod

Random, I think I can offer advice from not just an AS perspective but also from a police perspective.

I suppose I was assaulted by a friend last week (I'm female, he's male).  I won't go in to all the details here but suffice to say we went out for a drink to catch up on each other's news & despite my (to me) obvious discomfort, he proceeded to assault me.  During this time I never told him to stop as I believed (being a friend) he would see my discomfort & stop.  I also felt it was my fault for encouraging him by agreeing to go out for a drink.  This shook me up really badly and was a bit of a wake up call to me that people aren't always what you think they are.  Although this wasn't as bad as yours, it did open my eyes to how easy it is to manipulate people who are 'different'.

From a police perspective however, not all autistic people require an appropriate adult.  And in regards to video statements, I think I would feel the same as you.  The paper statements however are like a kind of interview, hence why the officer asked so many questions.  Plus, if he was asking the same question in a different way, it meant he was just making sure he got all the facts rather than him not believing you.  I think you were incredibly brave coming forward to report that - not many NT people would.

Anything else you want/need to know, let me know.

Sgt R

Has been a hectic week, so I wanted to reply a little earlier. In my earlier post, I didn't mention one of the reasons I found it difficult first reading longmans post was that it brought back memories of the police interview, I hadn't discussed the things in my original post since the assault.

Coogy, I am very sorry to hear about your assault, and understand why you were not able to get to report it. Before experience something like this, you read all the same kind of awful assaults on people, and the way you envisage how you feel and how you would react is totally different if you have to experience it first hand. I am sorry to hear how it had affected you going out, reporting something like this is a big deal, it is no "failure" not to get to that point.

For practically my entire life I have felt worthless, "absolute zero, nothing", is a phrase I would use. After the assault, I thought about the devasting impact people like this have infllicted with intent on others, and realise people like these are "less than zero", and have been able to come to terms with the assault with this thinking.

I was offered for a video interview, but I generally feel extremely uncomfortable when I am photographed or filmed on video. Looking back, I wonder if aspies are at a disadvantage here, as judgements on body language and facial expressions come in to play. 

I have been able to continue going out, but have not been to a noisy pub or gig yet, it has been a struggle. I have not been going out for very long, only for the past three years or so, with the exception of an odd holiday every three or four years.

Thanks again for the replies and support

I know there may be others reading this, who have gone through similar awful experience, but don't want to post or discuss it. Just wanted to let you know that you are in my thoughts 

I really want to reply to a lot of the points raised, I am extremely exhausted and need to rest at the moment.

I welcome longmans reply and really appreciate the time and care he made to my post; and other posts he has made on this forum. It was no intention of any critisim on my part, or dis-agreement with the points you have raised.

When discussing it with the specialist officer any question or doubts about me giving out a signal that could be interpreted as acceptance or willingness have been ruled out in my mind, I have gone through it again after my diagnosis. If I had any doubts, I would not make a statement and accuse these girls, it is a serious acusation.

It was difficult for me to read, because if it went to court, it would reflect the defence the girls would use. It also similar comment the police officer interviewing me before I tried to give my statement, it went on for two hours, I feel this would would place doubt in the Jury's minds. 

I agree with longmans post as a general situation at a noisy music gig, or night club. But when you are being harassed or assaulted, it is not the same, theres another level to it. 

random said:

One thing that has been on my mind, is what if it had gone to court, and I had then received my diagnosis, would it have strenghened the girls defence. Longman, I think that's why I found reading your reply difficult.

If you had a diagnosis then they would have been guilty of molesting a disabled person so they should have even less sympathy or wriggle room from a court. If they had picked on someone because they perceived a disability then they would also have breached the Equality Act as this applies to people who have a disability or are perceived to be have a disability. In the latter case your diagnosis wouldn't have been necessary as it is only necessary to identify a perception in the molesters behaviour.

I don't think Longman was trying to excuse what happened but I think he may have been trying to highlight some of the extra hazards of living with Autism to someone who is, like me, relatively new to having the autism label. That discussion may have been straying slightly off the topic of sexual harrassment not just being a male on female crime as it is often reported but straying off topic is sometimes a valid way of broadening knowledge and understanding.

Longman,

  Whilst I take on board some of the points you make about communication difficulties in these environments I feel the perpetrators comments,

'she would set her bouncer friends on me if I caused any trouble!'

to me, is a clear indication of premeditation and that she intends to take advantage of an individual and knows what she is doing is overstepping the boundries. Big Time! It's a clear threat and she's using this threat of her bouncer friends to prempt any resistence or adverse reaction she may get from her victim, to her clearly inappropriate behaviour.

It's the same as a rape victim being told by the perpetrator that they know where they live! It's using the threat to ensure the individual doesn't report the behaviour through fear that they will return or in the case above, that Random will be wrongly blamed for harrassing the girls, rather than the other way around.

This type of threat is very typical of a perpetrator who has commited these type of offences before and is used widely against vulnerable victims, especially children, who fear reprisals of what 'they percieve' may be action taken against them for some wrongdoing on their part. It's a psychological power tactic used by abusers.

Very clearly different from the miscommunication issues you highlight.

Project unbreakable clearly reflects this and is 'a photography project aiming to give a voice to survivors of sexual assault, domestic violence, and child abuse, featuring photographs of survivors holding posters with quotes from their abusers.  (This has a trigger warning. Caution advised if you intend to view the site.)

The treat is very real to any victim and the potential consequence of such a treat pitched to silence a person, not to be confused with miscommunication. 

I get what Random was trying to say here about your post. Perhaps it's slightly more more apparent to those who have been victims to such an assault, but I think it's worth clarifying the point.

Respectfully,

Coogy

Hello Random,

 I'm so sorry to hear about the assault you experienced. My heart goes out to you. Like you, I too have suffered a serious assault, but sadly, I didn't feel able to even get to the reporting stage. I will not go into details here, but lets just say I didn't feel my report would be investigated properly.

I'm not sure when your assault took place, but as a vulnerable adult I believe you should have been interviewed under 'special measures,' by a specialist team of officers. This certainly seems to be best practice, but sadly doesn't always occur. Special measures would mean that you were video interviewed in a relaxed and non threatening environment, rather than interrogated as you suggest, and that officers skilled in supporting victims of assault and dealing with the trauma experienced by victims, were conducting the interview, rather than regular officers.

Like me, I have no doubt that you didn't misinterpret what happened to you. However like many Aspies, I also suspect that you can recall this assault with almost video like precision and detail. Somehow this often makes the trauma of it, all the more profound for Aspies and unsupported it can be the cause of PTSD for some individuals.

I spoke in confidence about my ordeal to one 'friend,' and their indiscretion and total insensitivity was such that it was shared with their family and brought it up as a topic of converstaion over the dinner table one evening. I was totally blindsided by this and It was like being assaulted all over again. Sadly, It had the effect of me never sharing my lifes ordeals with another again and driving the trauma even deeper inside.

Years later, a trigger occured completely out of the blue and it all came flooding back with a vengence. I was in pieces. As it looks as though you have experienced a similar recent trigger, you may wish to discuss this with a professional who can support you through what you are currently feeling.

As a woman on the spectrum, I've experienced a number of ordeals throughout my life, mainly due to my innate trust of others and failure to see danger and all have been very traumatic. The cumalative effect of these did much to compound my feelings of worthlessness and self-blame, however, post diagnosis and following therapy I can now appreciate that the perpetrators of such acts seem to hone in on vulnerability, that assaults can happen to either sex and that we are not responsible as victims.

Clearly, what happened to you was wrong and that they (the girls) were taking advantage of a vulnerable individual and knew what they were doing. You cannot feel guilty however, about not pushing the statement issue. Your emotional well-being at the time is what was important and clearly you were were further traumatized by the second police interview ordeal.

Can I also say, you are not the first to recount that the ordeal of interview was as traumatic as the incident. My son was interviewed under 'Special Measures' for an assault against him and experienced similar feelings. Evidence perhaps, that it's just as much about reliving the trauma for Aspies as much as it's about how the police handle complaints of assaults against vulnerable individuals.

I will always live with the truama of my assault, but I've come to be a peace with my failure to report it. In the climate and the circumstance of the time, I'm sure I would not have received justice and rather than being empowering for me, this would have been even more detrimental to my mental health, without doubt.

You did everything correctly and you are not responsible for their actions. The fault lies with the perpetrators and way it was handled by the police and you cannot feel guilty about choosing not to make a statement faced with such poor support.

For the future, try to focus on keeping yourself safe, but with a healthy measure of living. I became a virtual prisoner in my home following my serious assault and was totally isolated. It's taken me many years to realize that I can live life beyond this ordeal. I take simple measures like ensuring I'm not left alone when strangers call or that I make checks before I welcome people to my home, so that in the unlikely event I'm harmed again, I have some recourse. Choosing a like minded enthusiast to enjoy your hobbie or interest with you, can be all that's needed to begin to feel at ease again at such events.

You will never remedy the apauling behaviour of others, but with the law of probability, we have to hope that they will come to pay for their actions somehow.

Take Care

Coogy.

Hi random,

Communication in a forum is often brief and we often only manage to convey a fraction of what we are thinking. I hope i didn't imply any criticism of you for reporting your incident? I kind of assumed that you had done the right thing. Society needs people to make it clear that groping by strangers of either gender in any situation, public or private, is unacceptable. it sounds as though the police do pretty well on the whole and you were treated seriously and actually they recognised that you had a problem and treated you appropriately.

I have re-read Longman's post and don't quite understand whether it made you feel uncomfortable or whether you disagreed with what he was saying? perhaps you could clarify? One of the particular difficulties of this forum is that we all have difficulties in understanding each other's feelings and motives and issues. 

Thanks for all the replies and support, I did get some great support from the police at the time. Both the traffic police that turned up after I made the call, and the specialist officer from the police force in the county where it happened were excellent. Even though I was not aware I was autistic at the time, the traffic police did ask if I needed an appropriate adult with me.

I discussed the whole thing with the specialist officer, and she help to build a very clear picture of where "acceptable" and "legal" boundaries were crossed. She help to build my confidence to make a statement, in her opinion she classified it as a serious assault on what they thought was a vulnerable person; my description I refered to it as sexual harasment.

The police officer that came to take my statement, was a bit different. I didn't expect all the intense questioning. The meeting was to give a statement, but I felt as I was being interviewed. In retrospect, I don't criticise him, he was doing his job professionally, I now recognise how my condition afected me with this interview.

Longman, when I first read your reply, I had some difficulty with it. I think that is a great overview of difficulties we face in these places and how things can be mis interpreted. I have experienced all those things and know how that feels; this situation was very different. You mention difficult to read faces in dimly lit environment, my face was always turned away from the girl leading this, there was no facial contact with her, and only once with her friend. There was quiet a lot of light, I simply totally ignored her, had my back to her, no body language, no eye contact

I didn't communicate with her, I was sure she would make some scene with the bouncers, would they believe me if she made some false acusation about me , thats how I read her first threat. No it wasn't make in a joking kind of way, her tone changed like jekyl and hide as she was talking with her friend.

I do recognise what you mean by people being tactile to try and get others to join in. I have not gone in to specific details of the touching here, I did with the police. I don't think anyone could confuse this social tactile contact, with the kind of touching and caressing you would engage with lovingly and intimatly with a close partner.

This was a whole different experience to other times in similar places. The kind of numb shock that came over me as I walked away from there was the first time I had felt like that.

I was making a serious acusation, and I had to be absolutely sure of what happend was wrong and not a mis-interpretation. I had reached that point, mainly with the help from the specialist officer, who also recognised my reaction to the assault.

My reasons for progresing it with the police, was to help someone else not having to go through a similar experience at the hands of the same person. As they were targetting vulnerable people, gave me more reason to do that, again not knowing I was on the autistic spectrum myself. I still feel guilty for not being able to do that.

One thing that has been on my mind, is what if it had gone to court, and I had then received my diagnosis, would it have strenghened the girls defence. Longman, I think that's why I found reading your reply difficult.

I am very sorry you had such a hard time but think it great you are able to share a hard time because it may encourage others to be more confident about speaking up when things aren't right. Thank you for being brave and sharing that. 

Hi random,

I'd just like to echo the comments from recombinantsocks and longman which provide good advice. I'd also like to thank you for feeling confident to share a clearly distressing experience for you, I'm sure that you have helped others on the spectrum who may have experienced a similar situation. If you ever want to speak to someone outside of this community confidentially, it may be helpful to contact the Samaritans.

Thanks again for exploring this issue from a male perspective. As both recombinantsocks and longman show, there is always support for you here in the community

Sofie Mod

You are perfectly entitled to complain about sexual harrassment or assault in such a situation. The principle seems to be, in theory at least, that if it is perceived as harrassment by the recipient, it should be followed up So you were right to try to get some resolution from the system.

If I read it correctly, social interaction in gigs and clubs involves a certain amount of behavioral licence - it is usually either dark or flooded with bright lights, it is crowded, no-one can easily signal by facial expression if they don't want something to happen (if the face is partly obscured by shadow or light) and it is very difficult to communicate verbally. Interaction becomes very tactile, and someone would have to respond very clearly that they didn't want the contact.

Of course that is a disaster area if you are on the autistic spectrum. Speech is your main form of communication - cannot hear it above the noise, cannot hope to make yourself heard. Body language isn't you thing, indeed your body language may be doing the opposite of what you intend. An autistic male might appearing to say yes when meaning expressly no.

As I've observed, communication in noisy venues has to be exaggerated (before diagnosis I sought the club scene as a social outlet because I couldn't interact properly at nominally quieter social situations like parties - white noise ends up as a relief).

You've actually got to shout in someone's ear, or very manually show that you don't want the unwelcome attention. If you see a conflict developing it is often because people have misread attention or have not been able to convey by gestures they don't want it. Often snarling and mouthing ******** is the only way of stopping unwelcome attention. It really has to be on that level.

Some non-autistics think that everyone should be in the party spirit. If they see someone looking alone and out of it, they seem to feel it is their duty to get that person involved. So it need not be as simple as attraction as come on, join in the fuin with us. The intention may have been quite harmless. But you would probably have to be quite expressive back to get them to stop. And autistic control of facial expression and gesture may not be adequate for that, nor would you necessarily want to be aggressive.

Though that must make it hard for anyone whose sensory limits are being exceeded who are approaching a meltdown reaction. How do you go to a gig to enjoy yourself when other people wont let you do so in peace.

A similar type of non-autistic behaviour is couples on coach tours or cruises, or package holidays, who think it is their duty to "adopt" anyone who is single, that they think needs to join in the fun.

It's an NT world out there full of folly, lack of consideration for others feelings (who says we lack empathy?!), and rudeness abounds. Just its done in an NT way.......that makes it OK......??

Dear Random,

That's a really traumatic and unpleasant incident and you have all our sympathy.

Can you bring yourself to pity the perpetrators for being so feckless and vile? Pity can be more effective, in my mind, than hatred and anger.

The undiagnosed autistic life is often harsh and traumatic and your story is part of that. With a diagnosis, I believe that we can learn to avoid or manage these situations with more confidence. your focus on improvement is, I think, the best way to move forward.