Public executions WTF?

The HBO show "Last Week Tonight with John Oliver" has produced some YouTube videos, including...

- Executions

- Lethal Injections

- Death Penalty

The YouTube Channel "LegalEagle" uploaded a video this month, "Can The State Kill You Twice". Following the botched execution of Christa Pike.

Former Police Interceptors star Bean Pearson, has a video on his YouTube channel titled "Bring Back The Death Penalty - Is It Needed?".

I think it's Taiwan they really want and anywhere else that was historically Chinese. Whilst they're very proud of their military and are probably right to be, it's good that they don't seem inclined to use it, just show it off, thats what a good deterrent does. If Europe hadn't been so keen to reap a peace dividend after the cold war, or at least not reduced our military strength in the way it has, especially successive UK government we might not be so worried about Russia now

TheCatWoman said:

I don't dislike the Russian people, but I don't like their government.

Oh I think that is an important note to make and I fully agree. I actually brought this up to my students when Russia attacked Ukraine in 2022, since I had a student who was previously very proud of his Russian heritage. I wanted to subversively protect him and encourage him by making it clear that we should be angry at the current leaders, not the culture or people of that nation.

TheCatWoman said:

I've had the feeling that China dosen't want to conquer the world in a military sense, but it doe's want to own it, war's bad for trade and they love trade.

That’s a really good point and I hadn’t thought of it that way. I’ll have a think about that perspective, but given how proud they are of their military I currently think it’s only a matter of time before they launch huge attacks on nearby Asian countries for further land grabs. I’m not sure what they’re waiting for, but it feels inevitable to me.

It's just what I've picked up reading and watching news programs here that have American talking heads, like Scaramucci and some top pollster. I know Scaramucci is can be full of himself and probably isn't to be trusted on a number of things. But when otherwise respected people in the US media and political establishment are saying that ordinary Americans support Ukraine, I believe them, they're not all from one source, although I'm sure they don't want to pay for Ukraine any more than we do, but accept it needs to happen for the greater good. I think you (Americans), like us, brought up through the cold war have a bone deep distrust of Russian and China and its very hard to erase that because someone like Trump comes along and says otherwise. Even after the end of the cold war, we've had Russian mafia to deal with, I'm sure that the ordinary Russian people feel the same wariness about us, I don't dislike the Russian people, but I don't like their government.

I've had the feeling that China dosen't want to conquer the world in a military sense, but it doe's want to own it, war's bad for trade and they love trade.

I know you addressed this to Iain, but I didn't know Charlie Kirk had an organisation, that's something that dosn't get covered here. Having read what you said, I can't say it surprises me, these things always seem to start with a charismatic leader, a woman gets prominence a bunch of men disagree and take over and mould it to their whims and often the original message gets lost. You could say it mirrors the history of Christianity itself, as Mary Magdalen got pushed out, then James, brother of Jesus.

I feel like the situation at Turning Point USA (Charlie Kirk’s organization) has given us a glimpse at what it will be like when Donald Trump is no longer accessible in whatever way. With Kirk gone, his wife took over the company, but there has famously been a lot of infighting among the members of the conservative platform for who should really be in charge. From what I’ve read Erika Kirk has a strong following that support the Kirk family, but there are a few other potential leaders that think she is incompetent due to being a woman. It is ironic that a group famous for pushing a husband-dominate worldview would be led by a widowed wife, lol. Apparently she was just officially elected as the group’s CEO, so take that as you will.

Hopefully MAGA won’t push a “Trump Dynasty” with Barron Trump to replace his father. No kings, please.

TheCatWoman said:

From everything I've read and heard the American people strongly support Ukraine and distrust Russia

Generally that seems to be one of the few things that Republicans and Democrats mostly agree on. Of course die-hard MAGA will follow whatever Trump does, but I think most Republicans are wary of China and Russia just like the Democrats. However, I think Democrats tend to support Ukraine while Republicans generally could care less about Ukraine. I don’t have evidence of that, it’s just a vibe I’ve gathered.

So Trump’s history of inconsistently supporting Russia and China is odd considering it feels like the majority of his own party can clearly see they can’t be trusted.

I think it's a tactic used by Presidents, have a VP who people are equally or more dubious about than them. Bush did it with the bloke who's name I can't remember.

I think people this side of the pond fear an openly born again Christian president as much or more than we do the familiar opportunists. Nobody wants a Trump, for all the obvious reasons.

I wonder if his head will explode at the mid terms, if as expected the Democrats win at least one of the houses, if the win both, he's in trouble. Although I suspect he will just wrote exectutive orders to do what he wants like he has with the latest round of sanctions on Russia.

From everything I've read and heard the American people strongly support Ukraine and distrust Russia

Civil war in the Cabinet among a bunch of narcissists?  Here’s hoping 

ArchaeC said:

I wonder if things would be better in the future if he were to be fired

I don't believe Trump would tolerate any VP who would steal attention fro him or stand up to him in any way - he is too much of a narcissist for this.

In the event that Trump left power there would be a civil war in the cabinet to take over the position as president.

ArchaeC said:

Would there be an even more nasty person ready to replace him?

That was exactly my fear with Pence lol

Vance’s response is, I agree, weak for a politician. He hasn’t featured much on the news on this side of the Atlantic for months. 

I wonder if things would be better in the future if he were to be fired. Would there be an even more nasty person ready to replace him?

Execution is not an effective deterrent, and for all sorts of other reasons, I don’t agree with it under any circumstances. 

Hegseth’s proposed public execution, which looks like it won’t be live streamed, shows his thinking, and that of others, is deranged and in the domain of inhumanity.

Hegseth talks about how World War II soldiers were willing to ‘stand their ground’ in the face of danger, but he distorts history by equating the soldiers’ actions with those of present day firing squads. Firing squads, shooting at a man hooded and bound to a chair, are not standing their ground. 

Public execution would not be about justice. It would be a display of power, through the medium of a hooded and bound man, for the glorification of violence and war.

Expecto_Patronum said:

That could have backfired to revenge attacks.

100%. My primary concern is copycats (like I said before with the seven that hanged themselves after seeing Saddam’s execution), but yeah, it could have caused an explosion of vengeful violent acts in retaliation as well. Luckily we won’t find out, huh?

Even if I did agree with public execution, which I definitely don't. Using it as a deterrent is a risky strategy. That could have backfired to revenge attacks.

I'm very glad it isn't being streamed. I think that could have been very damaging to the public.

Trump is a scary human being.

TheCatWoman said:

I wondered if Hesgeth announced this without consulting anybody and put Trump in a spot of not wanting to back down and look weak

Plausible, but I guess I’m too pessimistic to think Trump values life of others over his ego. I believe that even if Hegseth made this crackpot idea himself, Trump was likely inclined to support it. He might have been lucky to have not announced his true feelings on the matter until after so many in his own party decried the publicity of the event.

I don’t know enough about Hegseth to agree or disagree that he may be more insane than Trump. It’s likely they are insane in different ways (bloodthirst and ultra-masculinity vs greedily depraved and lacks grasp on reality).

TheCatWoman said:

his religious zealotry repels me and makes me extremely wary of him

Ditto. I think my dad is strongly supportive of Vance just based on the fact that he proudly read Vance’s book, but yeah, I’m with you that his singular focus on supporting “Christian values” is unnerving. To me, the more “Christian values” are upheld in American politics, minorities of all shapes and sizes seem to suffer. Ex. The “Christian values” of the white elites seem to desire whitewashing the role of slavery in 19th century American history, since surely white Christians of the South weren’t THAT depraved, right?!

I'm glad it's not going to be live streamed, even if its still going ahead. I wondered if Hesgeth announced this without consulting anybody and put Trump in a spot of not wanting to back down and look weak but the distress raised by so many has given him a way out? 

I wonder if Hesgeth is even crazier than Trump at times.

I'm not a fan of Vance, I find him differently odious to Trump, his religious zealotry repels me and makes me extremely wary of him and any political motivations he might have. I did hear that Trump didn't want him or any vice president for that matter? I think Vance is and has been sidelined

Yep so often the word deterant iw bought up but it isn't that and it's not really a punishment either as punishment teaches toy a lesson after a crime has been commited itw more like touture follwed by hypocrisy

Update: Trump has officially declared the execution will not be live-streamed. There will still be an execution, though. AP News on Trump and the Public Execution

“Trump said on social media that publicly airing the execution “might have been a strong deterrent for the World to witness how America deals with Terrorists and SCUM like Hasan."
But, he continued, “many very good and well meaning people would rather not watch him die, through streaming, or through any other visual device.””

Let’s be clear that it is not an apology. It’s almost like he’s wistfully longing for a chance to show others how big and tough he is, but also saying he doesn’t have a choice because of “good and well meaning people”. This really sounds to me as if he was completely on board with the idea of making it a spectacle.

What’s interesting is VP Vance’s reaction, which this article I linked mentions. When I first saw in another article that Vance had stated he wouldn’t participate due to religious reasons, but didn’t outright say it was morally wrong, I was amazed. While that’s a weak statement that obviously panders to both supporters and deterrents of the public execution, it shows how perilous his position is. Since he’s essentially the golden child for the next presidential election (that is, if Trump decides not to), he’s stuck balancing a party that I believe is fracturing into three distinct parts: The MAGA hardliners that still worship Trump for his extremism, the center-right folk that regret voting Trump for a second term and want to go back to him being less (obvious) of a raving lunatic, and the church goers who only vote Republican because the Democrats are Satan’s beloved (or because Trump may be the anti-christ, but that’s a topic for another thread, probably).

So yeah, Vance is in a very tricky spot. How do you take such a polarizing idea like a public execution and satisfy the desires of all three camps in the Republican Party? Also, remember how Trump and his cronies threw Pence away after he condemned the Jan. 6 situation? That could easily happen to Vance any day now. Trump LOVES firing people; That’s his whole schtick. So if Vance wants any chance at running for president, he’s gotta do what he can to avoid that dreaded “You’re fired.”

Executions don't deter murders - so it's about some sort of retribution that society is observing and playing out. 

I seem to remember something about an ancient Babylonian king who first laid out written laws as far as we know so far - which includes "an eye for an eye" and the Icelandic laws that included expulsion and literal payment to families effected.

Not a fan of executions myself - I think it's a power game to give the appearance of doing something about a problem that doesn't tackle the real causes and a sign of gross social evil in my opinion.  Doubly so if public.

The person who has been sentenced to a public firing squad is paralysed from the chest down. To carry out the sentence they will first have to wheel him out in a wheelchair and shoot him sitting down. It’s all really quite sickening.