Social Communication

The school gate is not easy. I found there were a lot of cliques. I just stood in the background and occasionally spoke briefly to one of the similar parents who just waited for their child and went. 

Yeah I totally agree with this! 

I am genuinely lucky. My wife is neurotypical, and she is excellent at networking and organizing in general. She handles all social interactions that require coordination and followup and meeting new people, like inviting and building social bonds with people, I cook dinner, she handles invitations and gathering. Without her I would be lost. And as for potential brush-offs, she clarifies that. She follows up once, and either it was meant that way or not and dissolves into the background noise it is.

I can also relate to what you describe regarding school mom gathering in general. I don't like subtext and undisclosed agendas. If it is something I can learn from, I ask a lot of questions though. I find that much simpler. If it's something that discusses problems or shares unexpectedness of things, usually they were predictable, I tend to withdraw to a distance and just observe, or, well, just leave if it's for a drop-off or so.

In general I am fine with1-on-1 conversation, but getting into talking with many people at once normally doesn't work well for me. What confuses me often is also that I see what one person says and the other understood and there are disconnects and the I try to figure out if the receiver was aware and chose to not clarify or not. Things like that, and in the end, for what? it usually doesn't give me anything other than afterthoughts I then need to sort through.

I can lie very well if I put my mind to it and can be utterly convincing, but it's something I choose not to do, although I'm often accused of lying, but people who don't like what I say, usually because I'm speaking the truth to people who believe they hold power. The only time I conciously lie is a white lie, like 'no they didn't have any of those slippers you like left', when in fact I've bought them and hidden them as a present.

Its always struck me as odd that the most truthful people seem to be accused of lying more often that those who are strangers to the truth and gas light everyone around them. Maybe thats the biggest gaslighting they do, convincing others that they're truthful and the person calling them out is the liar?

I resonate with a lot of your points. A flatmate told me once I was the most genuine person they knew -I think I am straight forward in that respect and honest, and I think it makes me a little gullible and vulnerable to over sharing. That latter point has been really bad in interviews and saying the wrong, and the first has made me look at idiot that the same flatmate tells me one thing then in front of others said the opposite was true (to do with duplicity in relationships). 

Groups are a nightmare, as I can't focus on one conversation so often wind up in none and not sure what everyone is talking about, but singularly and in groups small enough for only one conversation I can cope well enough, and most of the time, everyone just wants to feel listened to. But if gets complicated, I just feel so out of my depth and immature and just try stay quiet and nod if I'm not sure how I should respond. 

Other mums at the school gates are a nightmare. There are those I can speak to regularly and chat with, but I just can't join a conversation that's already started like others can. But standing to the side and not joining in and it seems like others see you are aloof and weird when I just don't want to be rude or get lost in a conversation I don't know how it started -how do you know you won't say the wrong thing? 

Times I've found the hardest was when my child wanted to invite another round, if the parent says 'yeah sometime', but that's it, I think that's a brush off, but certain times I think they expect you to the then message them to arrange and I really can't tell which is which. I find I just can't tell other people's intentions from their words and it scares me immensely.

There is another parent other people find brash, but I like talking to them as they are straightforward and say what they mean, so I know where I stand and there isn't an extra layer of subtext to confuse me.

I am more of a listener and let others lead conversations -trying to say something else I tend to stumble over my words or if it's in groups the moment has passed before I have put together in my head what I want to say so I just leave it.

I find it much harder in a group situation though. I think that would be more between 3 and 4.

I am stuck between 2 and 3. Sometimes, I feel like I do very well with it and other times it just seems like I can't get it right. I also think I can appear to understand social communication better than I do and that leads to a lot of rumination.

I think it depends on who is asking the questions too and why….because not everybody is like this but there is one person I know who makes me feel like that and they are not in my family and I don’t know them that well , so certainly should not be asking me as many questions as they do.

I had discovered a funny thing in the pandemic which was when I wore a face mask I felt like my other senses were a bit restricted too - and a few people had commented that they thought the same. 

I have hyper hearing - so can hear everything that’s whispered across the room but if you speak to me whilst I’m engrossed in an activity - I might as well be deaf - and it has been commented a fair few times. I think it’s the hyperfocus ability.

the idea of noise is slightly different between people with AuDHD, ADHD and Autism and also noise from trauma 

I can understand that - I normally remain quiet until it’s my turn to speak which can be very rarely as everybody else talks over each other and jumps in regularly …. Or overpowers the whole conversation by which time you’ve given up trying to say something at all or by the time you do say something it’s about 10 minutes later on in the conversation by which point the relevant moment is gone 

I feel the same, I cannot lie. It stresses me out. There was a story I learnt in primary school, it was read to us by our teacher back then, I was just six years old. It was about a child made of glass, and everyone could see what was going on inside of it. When it lied, a little black ball was bopping up and down inside of it. That stayed with me. What you write is the nicest thing I have read on this topic in ....I think for as long as I can remember. How can you even understand you do not lie and that others do when it is so alien to you? I had occasions where I was accused of lying, and that were among the cruelest in my life because it were people I loved and because there is no way you can prove you haven't. You can't escape this feeling of having hurt someone when you have not, you want it to stop and it doesn't.

I pretty much can’t lie…. But it’s also very difficult when you try to connect with people and understand them and they would rather have a lie - or they don’t like the truth . I think I absolutely agree with you on the shelling out of social capacity and understand what you mean. I enjoy people I can be quiet with 

A lie is to say or do something that leads an audience to believe what you know is not true. Autistic people like myself have a lot of things on their minds, and if you consider how much stress it implies to lie, that is probably one reason why we have an image of being loyal and do not shell out social capacity like candy. What's your opinion on that? It feels right, but maybe I am totally wrong.

All four apply at the same time. I just choose to not engage with people. They are imprecise, in their choice of words, their insecurities and projections.....it's like it feels to me like I read their minds, but if I call them out on the ambiguities they show, they feel caught, they flat out deny it though it is even supported in surrounding circumstances they created through a consistent track record on the matter at hand, or they feel ashamed. Most things people talk about that are beside solving a concrete problem, like driving a nail into a wall, are obvious as far as cause and effect are concerned and to me seems most of the time a choice or matter of self-deceit. So why do they ask or share it with me? Do they want approval, my blessing? That someone is genuinely open minded and really wants to know what I think is rare. Those that do get an answer, and they solve the problem they have. And then there are those that just want me to listen, not answer at all, which I can and do. That is probably in summary why social conduct in terms of conversation and protocol feels to me like a waste of my time.

I'm better with one on one or two people, but even then it depends what the topic is etc

Sometimes I don't have anything by to contribute at all or if I do it goes unnoticed which makes me not want to talk. 

Over time I've found it easier to just talk to myself than others 

I'm like Martin and can't hear when theres other noise, I feel as though I'm surrounded by radios all tuned into a different channel and playing a different volumes, I can often hear someone on the otherside of the room but not the person sat next to me.

I prefer one to one too, I find groups talk over each other or may be they just talk over me? Anyway they're things to be avoided.

I have a weird thing where I often know if someone I don't fancy fancies me, but not if someone I fancy fancies me, I always end up thinking they're just being friendly, this causes confusion and sometimes trouble. At least now the menopause has taken any desire for relationships away it's something I no longer have to worry about, t's great like having an extension in my head.

I find now that I don't want other around me, I find them exhausting, all the questions, why do so many people ask so many questions, its like being interrogated! It's not like they even listen to the answers half the time anyway.

I think that the major difference between autistic and allistic people (here I am talking about autistic people with no co-occurring intellectual disability) is how social skills are acquired and used. Allistic people absorb them without conscious effort and then use them with equal lack of effort. Autistic people employ much more conscious effort in acquiring and then subsequently using social skills. In general I get by with social skills quite well, I reached 59 years of age without anyone twigging that I was autistic. However, socialising requires effort and that effort can be tiring and sometimes exhausting.

Specific problems I have include not being able to follow conversations if there is a lot of background noise - especially if this is other people talking or a radio/TV with talking is on - and timing my own contributions in group conversations. With people I know well I have held my hand up to indicate that I wanted to say something.

The main problem I had was in converting acquaintanceships with the opposite sex into romantic relationships. It took me many years to figure out where I was going wrong. Essentially, I had no idea if a woman found me attractive or not, so never made any move towards them, they inevitably thought that I had no interest in them. I researched the nuances of non-verbal communication quite extensively and at least ended up with a theoretical grasp on these elusive signals.

I find groups impossible. 

One to one is best but then I have some difficulty hearing correctly and understanding. 

People need to be very precise for me to be able to converse effectively with them.

I find it exhausting and much prefer silence.