Hating my honesty (and autism)

I can relate to this. Of course, when it comes to facts such as in proven scientific data or giving evidence of what happened for a court case, the truth is important, but in our society the "truth" in relationships is more flexible for most people and tricky for us who prefer to stick to facts.

It comes down to feelings and causing offence. If someone asks you if you like their new dress and you think it is hideous, if you tell them that (which is the truth) they'll be upset and offended. I think they also would either think you don't like them, or will like you less, or maybe both - who knows, I'm not a psychologist - but it certainly would harm the relationship. So if you want to be/stay friends with them, you can say 1. it looks great or 2. that the colour/style really suits them, or 3. that it goes well with their shoes/jacket. I prefer 2 or 3, as I can make a judgement that I feel is true and make them feel like they made a good choice. However if you don't like or care about them, you can tell the truth - What does it matter What they think about you if you don't want them as a friend?

What I find most difficult is when someone invites me to lunch or a social event and I don't want to go. In that situation you have a choice of making up an excuse or telling them the truth that you don't want to go. Making an excuse that isn't real - such as an illness or fake prior appointment - doesn't sit easy with us, but I believe it's what most people would do as it doesn't hurt the person's feelings and does no harm. But for us, it's difficult as we often find it difficult to see why we can't just tell the truth. So again, maybe it's better to tell a "white lie" if you want to keep someone as a friend, but if you are not bothered whether you see them again you can go ahead and tell the truth?

I do post responses for everyone, essentially. I think not getting the instruction and understanding needed to navigate life is one of the the most difficult aspects of being left out and disconnected.

You are welcome! 

There is a poem titled:

"Autism Honesty & I"

(2020)

by a Californian poet whose name is

Amanda Shelton. 

The poem has the marvellous opening sentence:

"Upon a thought I ride,
my visions I do not hide."

Some great posts already here so not much more I can add....(I have had a habit of using to be honest which is probably quite ironic in this case)...trying to give it up!). I probably like a lot of folks here really value honesty and plain speaking. But I have frequently been badly burned when I have shared my view or offered my opinion on something. Now been older and wiser, I am very careful with sharing my thoughts. Quite often I will answer a question with a question, probably very suspicious now but I don't care....not falling into the trap. I have developed a bit of a sense to some extent over potential sensitive topics, doesn't always work and I then try to avoid the question or respond with a question. Sometimes...often I say nothing. Usually then later on I beat myself over saying nothing....or evaluating what I could have said :) Its a very a difficult subject and one I find you cannot get right. Hope you find some way of making it easier for yourself.

What a great quote B & I thanks for sharing

The depth, and "human stability," of your response has helped me enormously this (very) early morning.

Thank you Juniper.

With respect and thanks for your insight and sharing - even if not aimed at/for me!

Hello AutismRox,

To a very large extent, I suffer from what you suffer from.  I use the word "suffer" purposefully.  It is difficult and unsafe for us, in most situations.

You have a"gift" for honesty.  That is the way I chose to look at the nature of our "suffering".....and yes, I use that word purposefully too!

I intrinsically CANNOT understand why someone who asks for our/my opinion, wouldn't wish to hear our/my ACTUAL and HONEST opinion on that matter.  Personally, I am not one who marches around giving my opinion on "all and any" matter that arises.......but if I am asked......and I feel compelled to answer....then I will do so with absolute and fundamental honesty......it would feel like a lie if I didn't speak the "unvarnished" reality of my thoughts on that matter.

Just like you, becoming "life-savingly aware" of my autistic reality was....well.....a genuinely profound "life-saver."

I have always been a very sensitive, present and "socially aware" entity......and I think that the combination of these things, with a sense of "profound honesty" is a recipe for (lets say....~) oblivion!? We need to be SUPER careful with ourselves, and take SUPREME care to ensure that we don't "loose our sheet" nor trust our souls to the vagaries of  the "assumed competencies" of "purported specialists" in dealing with "us-types."  If it were ONLY that easy, then I would have "signed-up" to sucking in all manner of paid and attentive help available, a while back?!!!   I did "dip my toe" into that pool, (and wiggled it around a bit)......but without much need for debate, quickly recoiled!

Perhaps, it would be helpful to be told that - due to your gift for honesty - you are obliged to dig deeper within yourself, to derive the WISDOM to know how to most appropriately "deploy" your honesty on the world?  Perhaps that this my "substitute" suggestion to you, because I don't "do" books and links and Youtube suggestions.

In the vain of, and in the spirit of my post here (ie me proclaiming to be honest and open,) I must be honest with you.  The type of 'autists' that might be able to help you best here, are perhaps not around here (so much) in the volume and breadth that I might hope for, at the moment, and in accord with my perceptions of what this place can offer (at it's best!)

Notwithstanding all of the above, dear AutismRox, I would ask you one, simple favour, please, mate = is this post to you even 'vaguely' sustaining or helpful to you.......or would you prefer me to pees off, and await for a stream of NAS and NHS links for "standardised and approved" help 'pathways.'

 And....btw....things do (in my experience) improve with age.  Things become clearer, more simple....and unashamedly "blunt" with age.....by default......ie, whether we (or anybody else) likes it, or not.

I wish you my best.....whether you are heard from again, or not......please keep it "safe."

In solidarity,

Number.

This is a subject I quite care about and have had to do quite a bit of work on over the years. So, hope something here helps!

Our communication difference with NTs can create all kinds of problems.

AutismRox said:

I have no idea how neurotypical people naturally just "know" when to be saying what.

NTs don’t just know. They communicate different than Autistics, so they’re getting all the context we cannot or can't quite catch. Something like 90% of communication is everything but the words (tone, gestures, signals and other cues).

I tend to think One problem with the truth as actually a difficulty not taking things at face value. Or a difficulty not getting 'lost in the logic'. In other words, following what is verbally stated, rather than being able to deduce the subtext. And while I can see how a few theatre classes had helped me navigate social nuance a little, I still didn't realise I had problems reading others. As a RULE, around 30, I started asking "how do you mean" before responding if I had the slightest confusion.  

I want to discuss some ways 'truth's were used against me. Trigger warning: violent parents.

My parents were divorced. Both most likely undiagnosed. One (most likely AuDHD) would get threateningly violent demanding the ‘truth’ over even the smallest issue - to where I found I could lie to avoid being hit. The other wasn't at all demanding, but then would openly disclose things I confided - insecurities or a difficulty. In reality, they weren’t trust-worthy with the truth. Truth at the expense of dignity is just undisciplined and immature.  

Truth can be used in all kinds of ways - to hurt others or to use for leverage. A ‘truth’ can bring someone to ruin. I had boyfriends who would ask what I didn’t like about myself and proceed to use the information in a manipulative way (how did I immediately know their using it was creepy, but still disclose when they asked?). The violent parent would accuse me of motives I didn’t have, and when I broke down crying because I felt so unseen and falsely accused by them, they would actually enjoy the moment of “calling out the truth” - which is really just a dopamine hit one gets when dominating others. Even though they had completely misrepresented, misperceived and projected their motives onto me. I had selective mutism when young. To this day I’ve never confronted them about this. 

Some truths are of grave consequence. Gravity, the exchange rate, having one’s bloods checked. A diagnostic, assessing damage to property, and so on. We can’t make a choice with out all the information. As autistics, we often don’t have all the information. 

Some truths aren’t helpful to share. Our bank account information, trade secrets that would lead to ruin, any unsolicited advice, or how depressingly ugly someone is. 

Truth isn’t always relative, but a ‘truth’ might not actually be true. 

If on principle, I want to be someone others feel safe around, it may mean being disciplined enough to withhold a ‘truth’ if 1. It’s not mine to share. 2. the truth cuts short a process of growth or leaves someone crushed. Here’s an analogy: If I look at a bud and think, “You’re not a flower!” And cut it off the stem, I’m simply being impatient. Technically, a bud is a flower, just as a catepillar is a butterfly. A kid is a goat and so on. The stage of being takes on varying shapes and expressions over time. On the same note, I have to ask: is my ‘truth’ is missing more context. 

Our ability to recognise what is true about things will change as we grow. As children, we may see a red thing, not quite understand it and even misidentify it. Take something basic: a giant plastic red gemstone we call a 'Ruby'. Around the same age we realise Father Christmas isn't real, we might have doubts about our ruby as well. Perhaps we then visit a natural museum exhibit with gemstones and geodes. Then later find a Pantone book of Shades of Red. As our understanding of how rocks are formed, how colours are created, and even how we're able to 'see' and perceive them with light - all of this knowledge helps shape our understanding of the real truth of a ruby. And some day we may meet a small child with a similar large plastic red toy gemstone and decide it's much easier to allow them a little fantasy than attempt to explain the crude oil and capitalism that formed their fake plastic ‘ruby’. 

“Truth” is a complex subject. In one sense, some facts need to be stable. Is the Earth flat or round? Which look-a-like mushrooms are deadly. But when it comes to variables in human relationships, we have to look to Ethics and principles as guides to follow. All truth has a price. Is my ‘truth’ opinion or speculation? Does it disclose intimate information? Has this person earned this information. Is my truth at the expense of another’s dignity? Is it at the expense of my livelihood. Is it gluttony, just a little indulgence, or am I starved for connexion and giving away the kingdom… 

At the end of the day, it’s always good to note: We don't actually owe just anyone 'the truth'. 

Hey Rox 

Yes! And it drives me up the wall. Not that I can't lie, that the whole House of Cards is built on hypocrisy. For a very long time, I have concluded that when neurodiverse people are told they lack nauce awareness, what is meant is there is a set of rules or conventions. Nobody abides by them, there just 'guidelines' which is contrary to everything I was ever made to believe. Though it may also have something to do with religion being less of  a factor in the West now. 

Like you, I was late to diagnosis (considerably later in age). I didn't go as far as a hospital, but I did have multiple diagnoses, all I still have, before receiving an Autism diagnosis. Where I do differ from you is that I did the reverse. I hated the Autism diagnosis, the ADHD one, all of them. I couldn't find any any benefits, and spent years trying to fit in. 

That was until I found a quote "When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change" That altered how I viewed everything. I am extremely proud to be a member of the neurodiverse community - maybe not being able to fit in in one set circumstances means you would be better suited to another. 

I hope that helps. 

Hi Rox

I too have a huge issue with dishonesty, and 99.99% of the time tell the truth. I hate silly games/pretend, that often seems to be the way for neurotypicals. However, in difference to you, I do understand (most of the time) why people lie - but that doesn't mean I agree with their approach. 

I see it as being the most authentic way (to be honest, about whatever it may be). But remember, most people (in my experience) worry far more about what others think of what they say or do. To them, they probably think it's kinder to tell the lie rather than the truth. 

In essence, don't beat yourself up about your honesty, it's you, and I for one see it as a positive trait. It's authentic, and when it comes to it - That's far more valuable than most character traits