Fun discussion about manhood

Yellow tree 118 said:

- treat women with respect and kindness. I believe women deserve to be treated with respect. I always hold doors open for women and let women go first on the bus etc. Just common decency to me but just little things that make me me

I like your post, although I don’t participate in the discussion about experience of manhood because I dont have any, I have some observations. Sadly, more and more women don’t want to be treated with respect, also they don’t want to treat men with respect. Instead they put their best effort to make men feel useless. Once I had a disagreement with my long term friend. She said, that we don’t need men and men suck. Then I told her: ok! Good! Then don’t call for a plumber or electrician if something is broken at home (great majority in these professions are occupied by men), don’t call for help if you have to pick a fridge to a third floor and there is no elevator. Don’t expect stocks to be delivered to the shop or bus to be on time (bus and truck drivers are also mostly men) and don’t expect someone to protect your a** in case if there is a war. Stop using devices that were invented by men. 
That made her speechless and then she had angry outburst and didn’t speak to me for some time. But I know I’m right. I always say, in our society we need both men and women. We only don’t need hatred. What I like in men is exactly their strength both physical and ability to control emotions. 

I get where the whole "men are trash" thing comes from. I'm never too sure how to react to it, because I can't take on the responsibility of how all men behave. 

I'm not insecure with it though; I'm not bothered by what a "real man" supposedly is. 

it comes probably from trauma and being abused. But here is the stereotype: men= violence, women = victims. It’s all mixed. Both men and women can be perpetrators and victims of violence. I experienced a lot of abuse, from both - men and women. And I’m far from saying such s*** about any group of people, just because someone belonging to that group hurt me in the past. Yes, nobody is responsible for other people’s actions and nobody should hold someone responsible for other people’s actions. 

Debbie said:

The subject of this offshoot of the main conversation is female/male power.

You are quoting examples from countries with extremist religious controls (Afganistan, Pakistan) where womens rights are in the stone age. All the discussions here have been relevant to our experiences.

I feel sorry that these situations exist but they are far beyond my power to do anything about.

Debbie said:

Ah, women having the power to say 'no'?

An odd choice of example.

You are missing the point of my discussion - it is the power given to women to destroy a mans career without proof where the same does not exist for men.

I fully support womens rights to say no and be respected. It is deplorable that it was ever otherwise and I believe the law has restored this power.

Debbie said:

You live in Brazil though?

Only full time since 2022 and I still return regularly and have many active contacts in the UK. So my experience is still current enough to be permitted to contibute I would hope.

Time for an obligatory joke to lighten the mood (as per the thread title):

How are men like clouds?

When they disappear, it’s a brighter day.

TheCatWoman said:

Is that still happening? I thought we'd got over that in the 80's and 90's, it's a terrible practice, it makes a mockery of equality legislation

It is still very much an issue in IT.

Amerantin (former member) said:

the IT industry has tried just about everything to encourage more women to join. It’s been trying for decades.

My experience of interviewing dozens of female applicants was that the vast majority only saw the IT support area (helpdesk, deskside, back end and project work) as beneath them - they were using it as a way to get a foot in the door at a prestigious company and were already planning their next step out of the department.

There were a handful who were actually interested in the field and these resulted in me often having a choice of 1 or 2 candidates for a position rather than the 20+ that I would have if males were allowed to be considered.

There was a resultant impact in the team performance as everyone else had to carry a lot more work to compensate for the less talented/experienced newcomers and within a year what had been a significantly overachieving department was struggling to do the basics as most of the male staff left (quoting unfairness in the treatment of promotions and increased political correctness).

This then gave the issue of backfilling the departed staff from the same restricted supply chain. It was at this point I decided I had enough and resigned my management position to become a much needed technician (and I could work remotely from Brazil), leading me to retire in my 50s rather than keep going in a job market that was becoming toxic.

Needless to say I was replaced by a female who lasted a year before decding to have a baby and left the team without a manager for the next 18 months - I felt sorry for those left in the team as internal squables became the norm and the whole dept developed a poor reputation after over a decade of excellence.

I'm not saying this is typical but it had a very direct cause. It may be down to the nature of the people attracted to the role (neurodivergence was widespread) or just a series of coincidences. It was just my experience of the drive for "equality" in the workplace.

Now for the obligatory joke:

What’s the difference between a boyfriend and a husband?

45 minutes.

Maybe we could just accept the fact that men and women are different in nature and also statistically have more predispositions to perform in certain professions, while women in others. Statistically there are more male airplane pilots, that does not mean a woman can not do it. But as it’s highly responsible job, people’s lives literally lay in the crew’s hands, the applicants should be carefully selected, regardless of their sex and other factors. I heard that some company in the USA  (forgot the name) tried their best to show in their statistics how diverse they are. That’s a disaster. 

To be fair the IT industry has tried just about everything to encourage more women to join. It’s been trying for decades.

But I think the solution lies earlier in peoples’ lives - at school. By the time people make a career decision it’s already too late. Too many stereotypes and misconceptions have already been onboarded.

Is that still happening? I thought we'd got over that in the 80's and 90's, it's a terrible practice, it makes a mockery of equality legislation. It feels like it's all no sooner done than thought about, no thought has gone into the root issues of why some industries are so male dominated and try to address those. This way of recruiting is setting everyone up to fail and I feel sorry for those employed by such idiots.

Didn't you accuse em of being a troll in the other thread? ;c)

Hibernating said:

You live in Brazil though, not the UK?

I was born and raised in the UK, lived in Brazil and Germany for several years and recently have moved to Brazil to get away from the toxicity of the UK.

I have a long career working in the UK with a lot of management and recruitment exposure which gave me the perspectives for this conversation.

Between politics, finances, polarisation of the population over vaccines, the imbalance in so many "rights" areas (womens, trans, racial etc) and of course the weather - it made a nice toasty place like Brazil a perfect place to take my life savings and have a much, much better quality of life while doing some good (helping autistic teenagers transition out of school).

I admit to being cynical about some of the subject areas we have discussed on this thread but that is through bitter experience.

This isn't exactly fun so here is another obligatory male joke:

Why don’t men have mid-life crises?

Because they’re stuck in adolescence.

Sadly I have to agree Iain. I work in an industry that is about 80% male and rather than fix the problem by encouraging more women to enter the industry, many companies including the one I work for, are promoting very young and inexperienced women into very senior positions they simply aren’t ready or qualified for so that they can make their diversity statistics look good.

It’s creating a completely toxic environment where I work and any man who speaks up is grievanced and processed out of the business.

Hibernating said:

2.  Please provide statistics to back up what you say regarding women having better pay and opportunities at work than males (ie power)

I was basing this off my personal experience in my last 2 jobs at a major sporting organisation and in the civil service where I was instructed to hire only female staff but it was not allowed to be put in writing because it broke the equal rights laws.

This is widespread at the moment (I checked with recruitment agencies on their experiences and it mirrors mine) as many companies strive to have equal numbers of male and female employees seemingly irrespective of whether the new female hires are better than the male applicants.

Hibernating said:

3.  Women having the power to say 'no' to mens' 'inappropriate' behaviour doesn't back up your argument very effectively.

Not what I said - I said about women having the ability to falsely accuse a man of inappropriate behaviour and the man will then be "cancelled" irrespective of the truth.

This is rife at the moment and it does not reciprocate to if a male accuses a female (unless the male is underage).

These reflect where the pendulum is swinging too far from the balance it should be maintaining in my opinion.

In keeping with the original spirit of the thread, here is an obligatory joke:

How can you tell when a man is going to say something smart? When he starts a sentence with, “My wife told me…”

What wasn't fun about what Debbie said?

Debbie, the O/P desired this to be a FUN discussion about manhood, and it appears you've spammed it with non fun.

Clearly, Karma has just slapped you! 

Unfortunately I've had to log out as I've been thrown into spam by quoting you.

So, without quoting you, here are my points:

1.  Men being used as slaves etc is irrelevant.  The conversation has become about male/female power.

Slaves/castes etc - that's not perpetrated by females alone. 

2.  Please provide statistics to back up what you say regarding women having better pay and opportunities at work than males (ie power)

3.  Women having the power to say 'no' to mens' 'inappropriate' behaviour doesn't back up your argument very effectively.

4.  You live in Brazil though, not the UK?

test

Iain said:

In some of the other cultures around the world plenty of men are slaves, are born to castes that are considered untouchable or are brutalised by totalitatarian regimes.

That's irrelevant.

The subject of this offshoot of the main conversation is female/male power.

Iain said:

In todays culture at work I believe the balance of power is passing the mid point where the power is moving to women who are being able to have an influence greater than men

Please provide statistics showing that women have greater opportunities in the workplace and earn more than men and have greater earning potential than men.

Iain said:

the risk of being falsely blamed for inappropriate behaviour.

Ah, women having the power to say 'no'?

An odd choice of example.

Iain said:

what we now experience in the UK as men.

You live in Brazil though?

Here's some more examples of men 'not'! having power:

https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/acid-attacks-pakistans-worst-social-epidemic

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/womens-rights-afghanistan-history

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/29/the-guardian-view-on-global-womens-rights-saudi-arabia-isnt-the-only-problem

The facts are based on the situation worldwide so are very skewed from our own country and culture.

These things we can experience and influence and are what I Sperg was talking about I believe.

In some of the other cultures around the world plenty of men are slaves, are born to castes that are considered untouchable or are brutalised by totalitatarian regimes.

In todays culture at work I believe the balance of power is passing the mid point where the power is moving to women who are being able to have an influence greater than men - DEI and the risk of being falsely blamed for inappropriate behaviour.

Maybe a correction is overdue - I'm not qualified to judge that but it is what we now experience in the UK as men.

The facts are based on the situation worldwide so are very skewed from our own country and culture.

These things we can experience and influence and are what I Sperg was talking about I believe.

In some of the other cultures around the world plenty of men are slaves, are born to castes that are considered untouchable or are brutalised by totalitatarian regimes.

In todays culture at work I believe the balance of power is passing the mid point where the power is moving to women who are being able to have an influence greater than men - DEI and the risk of being falsely blamed for inappropriate behaviour.

Maybe a correction is overdue - I'm not qualified to judge that but it is what we now experience in the UK as men.

Debbie said:

The subject of this offshoot of the main conversation is female/male power.

You are quoting examples from countries with extremist religious controls (Afganistan, Pakistan) where womens rights are in the stone age. All the discussions here have been relevant to our experiences.

I feel sorry that these situations exist but they are far beyond my power to do anything about.

Debbie said:

Ah, women having the power to say 'no'?

An odd choice of example.

You are missing the point of my discussion - it is the power given to women to destroy a mans career without proof where the same does not exist for men.

I fully support womens rights to say no and be respected. It is deplorable that it was ever otherwise and I believe the law has restored this power.

Debbie said:

You live in Brazil though?

Only full time since 2022 and I still return regularly and have many active contacts in the UK. So my experience is still current enough to be permitted to contibute I would hope.

Time for an obligatory joke to lighten the mood (as per the thread title):

How are men like clouds?

When they disappear, it’s a brighter day.

TheCatWoman said:

Is that still happening? I thought we'd got over that in the 80's and 90's, it's a terrible practice, it makes a mockery of equality legislation

It is still very much an issue in IT.

Amerantin (former member) said:

the IT industry has tried just about everything to encourage more women to join. It’s been trying for decades.

My experience of interviewing dozens of female applicants was that the vast majority only saw the IT support area (helpdesk, deskside, back end and project work) as beneath them - they were using it as a way to get a foot in the door at a prestigious company and were already planning their next step out of the department.

There were a handful who were actually interested in the field and these resulted in me often having a choice of 1 or 2 candidates for a position rather than the 20+ that I would have if males were allowed to be considered.

There was a resultant impact in the team performance as everyone else had to carry a lot more work to compensate for the less talented/experienced newcomers and within a year what had been a significantly overachieving department was struggling to do the basics as most of the male staff left (quoting unfairness in the treatment of promotions and increased political correctness).

This then gave the issue of backfilling the departed staff from the same restricted supply chain. It was at this point I decided I had enough and resigned my management position to become a much needed technician (and I could work remotely from Brazil), leading me to retire in my 50s rather than keep going in a job market that was becoming toxic.

Needless to say I was replaced by a female who lasted a year before decding to have a baby and left the team without a manager for the next 18 months - I felt sorry for those left in the team as internal squables became the norm and the whole dept developed a poor reputation after over a decade of excellence.

I'm not saying this is typical but it had a very direct cause. It may be down to the nature of the people attracted to the role (neurodivergence was widespread) or just a series of coincidences. It was just my experience of the drive for "equality" in the workplace.

Now for the obligatory joke:

What’s the difference between a boyfriend and a husband?

45 minutes.

Maybe we could just accept the fact that men and women are different in nature and also statistically have more predispositions to perform in certain professions, while women in others. Statistically there are more male airplane pilots, that does not mean a woman can not do it. But as it’s highly responsible job, people’s lives literally lay in the crew’s hands, the applicants should be carefully selected, regardless of their sex and other factors. I heard that some company in the USA  (forgot the name) tried their best to show in their statistics how diverse they are. That’s a disaster. 

To be fair the IT industry has tried just about everything to encourage more women to join. It’s been trying for decades.

But I think the solution lies earlier in peoples’ lives - at school. By the time people make a career decision it’s already too late. Too many stereotypes and misconceptions have already been onboarded.

Is that still happening? I thought we'd got over that in the 80's and 90's, it's a terrible practice, it makes a mockery of equality legislation. It feels like it's all no sooner done than thought about, no thought has gone into the root issues of why some industries are so male dominated and try to address those. This way of recruiting is setting everyone up to fail and I feel sorry for those employed by such idiots.

Didn't you accuse em of being a troll in the other thread? ;c)

Hibernating said:

You live in Brazil though, not the UK?

I was born and raised in the UK, lived in Brazil and Germany for several years and recently have moved to Brazil to get away from the toxicity of the UK.

I have a long career working in the UK with a lot of management and recruitment exposure which gave me the perspectives for this conversation.

Between politics, finances, polarisation of the population over vaccines, the imbalance in so many "rights" areas (womens, trans, racial etc) and of course the weather - it made a nice toasty place like Brazil a perfect place to take my life savings and have a much, much better quality of life while doing some good (helping autistic teenagers transition out of school).

I admit to being cynical about some of the subject areas we have discussed on this thread but that is through bitter experience.

This isn't exactly fun so here is another obligatory male joke:

Why don’t men have mid-life crises?

Because they’re stuck in adolescence.

Sadly I have to agree Iain. I work in an industry that is about 80% male and rather than fix the problem by encouraging more women to enter the industry, many companies including the one I work for, are promoting very young and inexperienced women into very senior positions they simply aren’t ready or qualified for so that they can make their diversity statistics look good.

It’s creating a completely toxic environment where I work and any man who speaks up is grievanced and processed out of the business.

Hibernating said:

2.  Please provide statistics to back up what you say regarding women having better pay and opportunities at work than males (ie power)

I was basing this off my personal experience in my last 2 jobs at a major sporting organisation and in the civil service where I was instructed to hire only female staff but it was not allowed to be put in writing because it broke the equal rights laws.

This is widespread at the moment (I checked with recruitment agencies on their experiences and it mirrors mine) as many companies strive to have equal numbers of male and female employees seemingly irrespective of whether the new female hires are better than the male applicants.

Hibernating said:

3.  Women having the power to say 'no' to mens' 'inappropriate' behaviour doesn't back up your argument very effectively.

Not what I said - I said about women having the ability to falsely accuse a man of inappropriate behaviour and the man will then be "cancelled" irrespective of the truth.

This is rife at the moment and it does not reciprocate to if a male accuses a female (unless the male is underage).

These reflect where the pendulum is swinging too far from the balance it should be maintaining in my opinion.

In keeping with the original spirit of the thread, here is an obligatory joke:

How can you tell when a man is going to say something smart? When he starts a sentence with, “My wife told me…”

What wasn't fun about what Debbie said?

Debbie, the O/P desired this to be a FUN discussion about manhood, and it appears you've spammed it with non fun.

Clearly, Karma has just slapped you! 

Unfortunately I've had to log out as I've been thrown into spam by quoting you.

So, without quoting you, here are my points:

1.  Men being used as slaves etc is irrelevant.  The conversation has become about male/female power.

Slaves/castes etc - that's not perpetrated by females alone. 

2.  Please provide statistics to back up what you say regarding women having better pay and opportunities at work than males (ie power)

3.  Women having the power to say 'no' to mens' 'inappropriate' behaviour doesn't back up your argument very effectively.

4.  You live in Brazil though, not the UK?

test

Iain said:

In some of the other cultures around the world plenty of men are slaves, are born to castes that are considered untouchable or are brutalised by totalitatarian regimes.

That's irrelevant.

The subject of this offshoot of the main conversation is female/male power.

Iain said:

In todays culture at work I believe the balance of power is passing the mid point where the power is moving to women who are being able to have an influence greater than men

Please provide statistics showing that women have greater opportunities in the workplace and earn more than men and have greater earning potential than men.

Iain said:

the risk of being falsely blamed for inappropriate behaviour.

Ah, women having the power to say 'no'?

An odd choice of example.

Iain said:

what we now experience in the UK as men.

You live in Brazil though?