Published on 12, July, 2020
I see this old chestnut has come to the fore again. I can see problems with it.
Does the military want all these people for a year or so and what will they do with them?
If people are made to volunteer for things like life boats, special constables and library assistants, will it mean that the training for such things will outlast the service time?
Will real jobs be at risk because people are volunteering?
If theres no sanctions how will they make people do it?
Will it mean that those currently on benefits will be sanctioned for not "doing their bit"?
Will this idea have mission creep? If not enough people volunteer, will some kind of sanction be imposed?
It all sounds desperate to me, like a political party flailing about to find vote winning policies that are ill thought out.
It won't come in until 2029 anyway, just in time for another election, hmmm?
The kind of regressive thinking that seems to define conservative thinkers. I've never understood this notion that putting teenagers into the military builds character, or gives you 'real world skills'. Even worse, the idea of sending troubled or anti-social teenagers into the military. Sure, let's teach them how to kill people.
It's just another attempt to use vacuous nostalgia for 'our lost Britain' as a vote-harvester.
yeah im on the fence with it.i can see how it can help and maybe change a bad lad to a better lad... i can also see how it may change a bad lad to a even worse dangerous lad...it all depends really, each person it will have different result....one thing i can say is that a decent martial art class will have the same result. fitness, discipline, fighting, getting any bad energy out of system in controlled place and destressing, assertiveness, confidence, life changing stuff.... doesnt need to be military they could send to to any decent martial arts class... comes with same risk that teaching bad cocky kid martial arts may just create a hazard to the public though... so it is case by case basis.
You could easily tell when Boris was obfuscating. You could see his lips moving.
Sincerity is certainly not apparent anywhere in 'mainstream' politics these days - the system seems to have a self-selecting exclusionary clause against almost all forms of genuine sincerity. Agreed.
Knowledge is a burden, I agree. It is the burden of power (in my book) because (in my book) knowledge is power. The burden aspect of this, is knowing how, or if, or when, to wield your power. I note that you do so with restraint and grace. This makes me happy, and gives me badly needed hope!
My words here on the other hand) make me want to vom, because, true sincerity is so out of vogue......its easier to lie, obfuscate or simply stay quiet....or to view sincerity from others as "smarm."
I am more than content to defer to your greater knowledge and competency in this particular arena.....ie I have no trouble accepting your opinion that.....
Pegg said:Oh goodness me no - it's really not that complex. Rather it was the first idea they came up with that they thought might stick with Reform voters.
.......is the primary driver behind their intentions.
This has all become a bit depressing for me tonight......I'm calling time on my involvement here this evening. Disambiguation = nowt to do with this exchange with you......just the fact that my brain extrapolates and explores the avenues that are presented to it.
Have a restful evening Pegg.
Yours
Number.
Number said:This youth conscription scheme is the best idea that this government (in it's last gasps of existence) could think of to try and mitigate these combined and growing problems......but
Oh goodness me no - it's really not that complex. Rather it was the first idea they came up with that they thought might stick with Reform voters.
Derails have been added as they've thought of them.
If we were foolish enough to give this 'pledge' credence, we'd discover to our cost how sincere it is. They've had 14 years in power - and where are we?
Number said: You are self evidently more informed than most
Sadly, that is true.
If I.could go back, I'd never walk through the gates. Knowledge is a burden.
It won't surprise you to hear, that I couldn't be a member of one......I don't have enough common ground with ANYONE!
Number said:I don't want to be lynched by the mob over a misunderstanding!!......there are plenty of half reasonable reasons to lynch me if you want to...
There aren't any lynch mobs on this forum and if there were, I wouldn't be a member of one.
To be clear, I was speaking, specifically about this youth conscription thingy when I made that statement.
To be clearer, I have no doubt whatsoever, that lies have, and do, abound throughout politics......and that this period around "Boris times" can fairly be characterised as a time of especially profligate, pervasive, blatant and mind-numbingly stupid LIES.
I don't want to be lynched by the mob over a misunderstanding!!......there are plenty of half reasonable reasons to lynch me if you want to......but assuming that I am defending modern UK politics against a charge of "lies"...well, that would be a miscarriage of fairness.
Number said: Lets call them "obfuscations and half truths"......it is much more polite, than to say "lies".....and possibly more accurate too, perhaps?
https://boris-johnson-lies.com/
Pegg said:I am so utterly sick of the endless lies.
.....strong words Pegg? Lets call them "obfuscations and half truths"......it is much more polite, than to say "lies".....and possibly more accurate too, perhaps?
I am minded to quote a film here - "you want the truth, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH."......quickly followed by the disambiguation that this quote is NOT directed at you Pegg.....it most certainly is not. You are self evidently more informed than most, on many matters - notably the woeful "politics" of the day here in Blighty.
I agree with all your points above, but think it worthy to add that the armed forces who would be responsible for these few young people joining their ranks have expressed great concern about the COSTS of this plan on their budgets. One might paraphrase them by saying "we don't really want them thank you, because they will be expensive to manage and train...and will loose them just when they might actually become useful to us."
One of the primary problems that the UK has right now is "productivity." It is a very very big problem. Western Europe is being shepherded (with fear dogs) into a pre-war footing. UK society is growing ever more fragmented and fissured.
This youth conscription scheme is the best idea that this government (in it's last gasps of existence) could think of to try and mitigate these combined and growing problems......but they haven't bothered mentioning the extent, depth and seriousness of this current toxic cocktail of challenges that the UK now has. And like you say Pegg, I am sure that some "internal messaging" featured heavily when this government decided how and when to present this "magic" scheme! /dp
Literally Pegg, I don't think everyone/most can handle the dire truth.....when you think holistically?
Happy Wednesday, btw, everybody! Keep smiling and being good.
TheCatWoman said:As I mentioned before no one has commented on the non military options for this national service, why is that?
Well, because 'National Service' is a loaded term, deliberately selected to imply military combat training.
In fact, that is NOT what is being proposed. Even those 30k who will be chosen to spend a year in the armed forces will be in non-combat roles. This is what the Government has said. Intelligence, Procurement, Logistics. Jobs for the privately educated - no change there.
As for the rest, that 97% or so, they'll be free labour to prop up failing public services.
As with everything the government says, there's always a self-serving agenda underlying what they say.
I am so utterly sick of the endless lies.
I agree that martial arts classes are good for instilling self discipline and respect.
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These proposals won't just be aimed at men, but women too, do you think that young women will repsond in the same way? Is the military a safe place for women and those from ethnic minorities, we've seen time after time the numbers of women who've been sexually assaulted and raped, often by senior officers and are left to deal with it alone. Ethnic minorities often suffer horrendous bullying and racism, is this going to make them more "British"?
As I mentioned before no one has commented on the non military options for this national service, why is that?