National Service

The kind of regressive thinking that seems to define conservative thinkers. I've never understood this notion that putting teenagers into the military builds character, or gives you 'real world skills'. Even worse, the idea of sending troubled or anti-social teenagers into the military. Sure, let's teach them how to kill people. 

It's just another attempt to use vacuous nostalgia for 'our lost Britain' as a vote-harvester. 

Captain Grover said:

I've never understood this notion that putting teenagers into the military builds character, or gives you 'real world skills'.

I have family who are career military and they found it was a great way to learn a lot of skills that would be difficult to get in civilian life without money or access.

There were things like getting a driving license (my nephew gained up to the HGV license which has obvious use outside the military), training on vehicle maintenance, sapper skills (civil engineering in a very hands on way), electronics (admittedly a bit niche now) and IT skills.

There are typically lots of other avenues this opens up if you want to develop skills while being paid although this needs more than the part time conscription model to access, but it is now open to you.

Captain Grover said:

Even worse, the idea of sending troubled or anti-social teenagers into the military.

I often wonder if this would be a good way for so many of our snowflake generation to learn the importance of discipline, whether self or imposed and that there are a lot of positives in spite of the negatives.

Captain Grover said:

Sure, let's teach them how to kill people. 

There is almost an unheard of thing in the military these days, certainly for any European army.

If push comes to shove and we get into a conventional war then we need to send someone off to do this horrible job and who better than those who society has invested least in so far. This is how politicians will view it.

Who should we send? They need to be fit, maleable and dispensible. Can you think of any other group who would be fit for purpose here?

Captain Grover said:

I've never understood this notion that putting teenagers into the military builds character, or gives you 'real world skills'.

I have family who are career military and they found it was a great way to learn a lot of skills that would be difficult to get in civilian life without money or access.

There were things like getting a driving license (my nephew gained up to the HGV license which has obvious use outside the military), training on vehicle maintenance, sapper skills (civil engineering in a very hands on way), electronics (admittedly a bit niche now) and IT skills.

There are typically lots of other avenues this opens up if you want to develop skills while being paid although this needs more than the part time conscription model to access, but it is now open to you.

Captain Grover said:

Even worse, the idea of sending troubled or anti-social teenagers into the military.

I often wonder if this would be a good way for so many of our snowflake generation to learn the importance of discipline, whether self or imposed and that there are a lot of positives in spite of the negatives.

Captain Grover said:

Sure, let's teach them how to kill people. 

There is almost an unheard of thing in the military these days, certainly for any European army.

If push comes to shove and we get into a conventional war then we need to send someone off to do this horrible job and who better than those who society has invested least in so far. This is how politicians will view it.

Who should we send? They need to be fit, maleable and dispensible. Can you think of any other group who would be fit for purpose here?

As an Irish patriot living in the U.K., I would refuse to fight in any U.K. war and I would rather return to Ireland to defend my homeland and my people from our own corrupt government in Ireland - they are trying to end Irish neutrality and force Ireland to join NATO, scrapping our 1937 constitution that expressly states that Irish neutrality is fundamental to the Irish state, to not get involved in foreign wars - that said, I like Swiss model, itself a neutral country, where all Swiss nationals train every 6 months in the reserve defence forces in order to defend the country to protect thier neutrality 

We see how young people seeking adventure from troubled backgrounds in the Edwardian age lied about thier age to enlist in the Great War (WW1) and it was similar in WW2 - what we now see was common to both world wars was that they were lied to and betrayed, even if they made it back safely and not injured from both world wars where their comrades were not so lucky and it turned out they fought on the wrong side - some wars are more controversial than others, such as the Vietnam war or the Iraq war or in Afghanistan - they are using people, especially young people as cannon fodder, and this is morally repugnant 

Iain said:

I often wonder if this would be a good way for so many of our snowflake generation to learn the importance of discipline, whether self or imposed and that there are a lot of positives in spite of the negatives.

Snowflake generation? That dismissive term is exactly the type of nostalgia-for-something-that-never-was which helps no-one. You want to harken back to a time when there were no 'snowflakes'? Please tell me when that was. I was born in the 70s. I remember the outcry if someone said a swear word on TV or a naked breast was visible. How's that for a snowflake generation? Or let's go back further, when people had an attack of the vapors every time a woman achieved a position of power. Snowflakes everywhere! 

Millennials and Gen Z are having to live with the economic wasteland that decades of rampant consumerism has left behind. They are shackled with massive student debts, find it almost impossible to buy property, and live paycheck to paycheck. They're disciplined enough. More so than I ever was at that age. 

I Sperg said:

Vomitting emoji is appropriate, but not I suspect for the reasons you were looking for..

It was totally appropriate.

Anyone who is happy to dismiss and patronise a whole generation by calling them all 'snowflakes' (or any group anything else by a denegrating collective term) makes me feel nauseous.

There are a lot of people in this world who believe they are better than others.

This can work on various levels: class, intelligence, economics, sex, sexuality, race, morality, life experience, religion (ad infinitum).

It's dismissive, patronising, narrow minded and egocentric.

Well Debbie, since our glorious and progressive leadership has got us into a shooting war now, who do we send to go fight the Russians? 

Will YOU be stepping up? 

Vomitting emoji is appropriate, but not I suspect for the reasons you were looking for..

And young peopel are easly convinced to do stupid things, (which is why some people think they shouldn't be allowed to vote, of course)

Iain said:

our snowflake generation

Vomiting emoji as mine won't paste.