Identity within autism

I was doing some searching on autistic language and I happened upon this:

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/52787

The Clinical Gestalts of Autism: Over 40 years of Clinical Experience with Autism

This point in particular caught my attention:

'Identity diffusion is central to autism, and this will include their sexual and other identities. This is probably due to the neural connectivity problems in the brain [9]. Contradictory identities can exist side by side in their mind. They can switch to another and opposite identity very rapidly. This can be confused with so-called multiple personalities. This identity diffusion can cause stress in making decisions and in employment, and despite intelligence and good education, they may withdraw and cease to seek employment. They can confuse people with these contradictory identities. They do not have a clear sense of themselves and people find it difficult to understand them. This makes it very difficult for them to have a clear sense of other people. This increases interpersonal stress. They are often mistaken for the opposite sex and come across as being androgynous. Males can appear to have a soft female facies and females with a somewhat harder male facies. They may dress more like the opposite sex, which always causes confusion and shows signs of gender dysphoria. A small number will have transgender problems. Sometimes they feel unreal and de-personalised as living in a film and having an “as if” personality. Older adolescents with autism or Asperger’s syndrome often appear to be “asexual”. This can be very deceptive as the very same people can get involved in perverse, dangerous sexual activities'.

  • Also the personalities can be drastically different. One lady who was blind but developed a personality who could see. Someone had a personality who spoke a different language despite the person never being taught it. One personality could have different IQ, physical strength, allergies,etc.

    That's fascinating.

    I saw a very disturbing film once based on a book.

    Sybil (the book):

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sybil-Flora-Rheta-Schreiber/dp/0446550124

    Sybil (the film)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_(1976_film)

  • In psych we recently learned about ‘disorders’ and DID was one. The teacher said that ussually there is one personality that is aware of the others but the others are not. 

    Also the personalities can be drastically different. One lady who was blind but developed a personality who could see. Someone had a personality who spoke a different language despite the person never being taught it. One personality could have different IQ, physical strength, allergies,etc.

    I dont know both those things for fact though but thats what my teacher said.

  • hmm maybe.... is the different personas of DID knowing of one another too?

  • isn't multiple personality disorder when the different personas are not aware of each other ie living parallel? In my case I know that I'm commentating myself 

  • but then the camp men wont know what a woman feels like and their actions are likely more... stereotyping... and stereotyping is often negative.

  • I’ve come across this debate before during my years on the gay scene and many gay men cannot stand the “camp” Gay men whom they regard as prissy little queens 

  • I was never really attracted to male interests aside from finding big, macho, muscular men very attractive but I’ve always had a passing interest in clothes, makeup, style and fashion with my female friends and would always try to steer them towards fashion choices that were timeless, elegant and classy, away from the more Avant Garde haute couture 

  • As I’ve gotten older, especially when in drag, I’m known to be a terrible flirt with handsome men and I’ve been called a “sass queen” before as I’m a big fan of 80’s soap Dynasty - I’ve always been drawn to the character Alexis (Dame Joan Collins) as part of my drag persona and I’m a big fan of Ru Paul’s Drag Race 

  • It’s an interesting subject for me as an older gay man who has dabbled with drag in the past - as for fashion trends, I’m drawn to things which are classy and which have timeless elegance like my own dress sense and sense of style - long before my diagnosis, in my teens in the 1980’s my coming out as gay attracted a lot of disapproval 

  • I’m unable to flirt. So maybe based on that fact, observation he would say I’m asexual. But I’m not. 

  • I don't know what it's like to be the opposite sex, but I don't really put much importance into my identity, because I rather put my effort into learning how to do things, rather than how I look like. I don't really follow the mainstream trends of looking good, because clothing textures can be uncomfortable, fashion can be confusing, and applying anything to skin can be irritating, and all of it can be expensive and impractical. So I don't bother with it. 

    Weird that the writer can observe someone to be "asexual." Is it because autistic people seem to lack social skills or something? I didn't know someone's sexual orientation or lack-there-of, can be openly seen like that. Is it strange that people on the spectrum can have relationships and even children one day? Or does this writer have to know every little detail about an autistic person's grown up and consentual bedroom activities? I mean, I cannot imagine asking anyone about "that" for a paper I'm writing, and then judging them about how perverse and dangerous their bedroom activities are. 

  • I've always felt more male than female.

    but how do you know what feeling like a male feels like?

    i could say i feel like a cat.... but id never know how a cat feels like as im a human. the only thing i know is the current feeling which is being human. and i live like a human and dont have the same reactions and bodily functions as a cat but as a human. therefore how could i say i feel like a cat?

  • Same here! I often hear that I look innocent like a girl and younger than my actual age. But then if I display some more male like traits then it’s a shock for some people.

  • Older adolescents with autism or Asperger’s syndrome often appear to be “asexual”. This can be very deceptive as the very same people can get involved in perverse, dangerous sexual activities'.

    This is interesting as the author is saying that these people 'appear' to be asexual, not that they are.

    Then he goes on to say that this is 'deceptive' (ie he is unable to read the person properly) as they get involved in 'perverse' sexual activities.

    Mmm ... this all seems pretty judgemental to me.

    I'd like to know what his idea of perverse is and why he thinks people are deceiving him because they are sexual even though they appear not to be.

    I'm just stepping down from my soap box.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapbox

  • In presence of other female colleagues I always had some kind of interest in them, but never competing in terms of attractiveness, make up, clothes, popularity, etc. I was always frustrated that I’m expected to be like them and socialise like them when I couldn’t. At some point I thought it would be better if I was a man.

    Me too.

    Maybe there is something more male in me, but it’s ok. 

    I've always felt more male than female.

    There's been a conflict within me as I look very 'feminine' but that's not how I feel or how I think and sometimes I think people are surprised that I'm not like my looks (if that makes sense).

    I'm pretty sure I've read before that this 'females' feeling more 'male' is brain/autism related.

  • Thank you all for your replies.

    Identity diffusion is central to autism

    I'd not read this before and it kind of struck a cord but also made me curious.

    I don't know how common this thinking about 'identity diffusion' is with regard to autism and whether it is correct (I always question everything).

  • I feel that the abstract you've found is quite wishy-washy, and I would have loved to see the statements backed by representative evidence. Too many statements use the word 'can', and it's almost like listening to some advertisement where a praised product 'can' do something. 

    I agree.  I assume the book has more detail.

    But I do think it is odd, and I am sure not everyone has an unsolicited 'imaginary friend' living inside their brainbox.

    I'm similar to you, re your second para.

    I've not read something like before (about identity) and it resonated.

  • I had an imaginary friend pre-school (she was an adult, as I wasn't keen on other kids!)

    I think that many of us are creative thinkers though, with strong imagination. Unfortunately we can sometimes imagine that stressful things might happen, so although it can fuel creativity it can also fuel worry Disappointed

  • Thanks Cat (is it ok to shorten your nickname?)

    Good point about increased connectivity & creativity/ problem solving Thumbsup

    Pixie Slight smile

  • What pixie said. I do get mistaken for the opposite sex sometimes, but I don't think that it's because I don't look female, because its always a certain type of older white male who insists on calling me sir. They're always a lot shorter than me so I think it's Napolean syndrome.

    I've always known who I am and have never struggled with gender, I don't think identity has ever been an issue for me except over titles like Ms, Mrs and Miss.

    Why is neural connectivity a "problem"? I think it's a problem for NT's because our increased connectivity can make us more creative, better problem solvers etc.