Published on 12, July, 2020
Today completes an important step for the National Autistic Society. Today with Rule 13 they complete the abdication of responsibility for supporting autistic adults reaching out for help.You may remember in 2021 that the National Autistic Society closed its general helpline. There was a thread about it on this forum. As was pointed out at the time from that point onwards this forum became the only port of call at the National Autistic Society for help for people who did not qualify for one of the remaining helplines.And the remaining helplines pertain to children in school, children leaving school and parents of autistic children. The National Autistic Society has become a defacto children’s charity leaving autistic adults out in the cold.Now not content with refusing to help autistic adults they now seek to reduce autistic adults ability to help each other. I fully admit that a bunch of amateurs on an autistic support forum is a poor substitute for professional help. However the vast majority of those seeking such help now have nowhere to go professional or otherwise.Some of you know that I also brought a lawsuit against an organisation for discrimination. I reached out to the citizens advice bureau and got no useful help. I reached out to the EASS and they said that they couldn’t help me because the other party would not engage with them. I wrote to established academics with a background in discrimination law and autism and they said they couldn’t help me.Yes I rang that autism helpline back when it existed, back when I tried to get some justice and they said we can’t help you. But at least I spoke to someone who admitted that he was supposed to be able to help me. That helping me was what he was there for.With regard to the law when you bring a case for discrimination most of the time legal aid is not available. This is in part because the majority of discrimination cases go through the small claims track which is intended to operate without lawyers.Something similar applies to the health service. It’s very easy for autistic people to get sidelined in the health service particularly if they are bad at articulating their needs and concerns. Again I know this from personal experience.At this point if autistic adults come to this forum or the loved ones of autistic adults come to this forum and say they are having difficulty with the law or discrimination or a medical issue rule 13 interpreted strictly means that we can provide no helpful advice other than pointing to sources of help that in fact do not exist.For quite some time now I have run a website dedicated to helping autistic people defend their rights and oppose discrimination. I chose not to include a forum on that website because I was aware that policing it could involve a substantial amount of work. However this development has persuaded me to change my mind. So I’m announcing that areyoualien.uk now has a forum for autistic people. The focus of this forum like the website is advocating for autistic rights in government policy and the law and opposing discrimination. You are all very much welcome there.
Thank you Peter.
I'm just posting it here for info:
'This update includes a new rule 13 ' Users should not provide medical or legal advice to other users. Giving medical or legal advice can have serious consequences, even if you’re trying to help another member. Please suggest they get advice from a professional.'
I think we need to consider what 'advice' is in this context.
For example, if we say 'I did this, and it worked for me' that's not advice, but just relating experience.
I hope I have understood the subject well. I note that in Italy this rule has been present in the forums for decades. The ratio of the rule is not to confuse people in need. That is., the rule is to protect people. I'll explain how it works in Italy. Anyone who violates the rule is first recalled and then banned from the forums. § Some things can be done. Share your own ideas and experiences. On legal and medical advice, people can be informed that there are laws, that there are therapies, but that any advice should be given by emphasizing that you ask a qualified person. § I read better and I hope I'm not wrong, if so please correct me. But the rule is the same here. § As you wrote in the final part, I think it's honest, sincere and correct as an interaction. You would by no means violate rule number 13 that you describe. § If I wrote: take the drug "XYZ" because you need it, it would be medical advice and at the same time a medical diagnosis (Even that is not allowed for example by us you get an immediate Ban if you do it) § It is a different thing to describe yourself, for example a drug "that has helped me in my situation and always ask the doctors" Sorry if I have not interpreted coherently what you wrote, let me know in the case and you will have my apologies.
I think most of us who are professionals are well aware of the need to be cautious when using media such as this. I already pay a substantial premium for my professional indemnity insurance!
I have said before that the rule on anonymity means there is no way of checking if users are actually who or what they claim to be. If you knew my name you could check with my regulator. There is some protection, in that designations such as "social worker " and "educational / clinical / counselling psychologist are protected by law. But anybody can call themselves a coach or a counsellor.
What would be helpful NAS Moderator please note, would be if those of us who are professionally qualified and willing to do some pro bono work could let this be known. (But don't overload us!)
On the matter of the helpline, I think this is a retrograde step. As far as children and young people are concerned there are organisations such as IPSEA, Young Minds, Mencap etc. Not to say an autism-specific helpline for CYP is not helpful, but there is a huge problem for adults with issues around employment, housing and other issues where autism-specific knowledge would be helpful. Even a list of neurodivergent-aware solicitors, social workers and other professionals who people can consult would be helpful.
I will look on the website at the governance of NAS and how members can influence these decisions. There must be an AGM or something where members can have a say on policy.
Please suggest they get advice from a professional.'
This could be construed as 'medical advice'. For example, if someone posted that they had chest pain radiating into an arm, then I would say that this is possibly a heart attack, phone for an ambulance, do not bother phoning 111, or waste time trying to see your GP. This is definitely advice, relating to a medical condition, is it 'medical advice'? It is also advice that could save a life, I would not like anyone to die for forum members being in fear of falling foul of a local rule. One put in place because of a theoretical concern by NAS of being sued. A simple disclaimer should be sufficient, something along the lines of "Any medical advice given by forum members on this forum is a statement of their personal opinion and does not reflect the opinion of the National Autistic Society".
I should also say in my case 'what I did' would include the entire process of sueing a company without a lawyer. 'This is what I did,' could cover writing a letter before action, filing a claim with the court. Formulating a legal argument. Negotiating with the other sides lawyer. etc. I doubt NAS would be happy with that level of 'what I did.'
If moderaters wanted to clarify the interpritation of rule 13 they are wellcome to do so. But I doubt they will. They generally want to keep rules as vuage as posible to give them selves wiggle room.
Also, most of us qualify what we say.
For example, when I was talking about antidepressants and side-effects I said that everyone responds differently to drugs.
Efficacy and side-effects are individual.
I know that you say something similar to 'this isn't legal advice'.
So I should think that's OK?