ADHD: Private clinics exposed by BBC undercover investigation

It's called selection bias. Unless they are a reporter with an agenda, the average neurotypical person would not pay over £1k for an assessment ... the folks who seek private assessments have probably already taken some screening tests and researched the subject.  Maybe one or two are trying to get medication, but I am sure there are easier and cheaper ways to get controlled drugs. Most people use these services because the NHS service is almost non-existent, and they are desperate for help. The BBC would have done better to expose the shambolic state of the NHS ... but that is not news. As far as kids are concerned, I was part of a working party that looked at NHS Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services in NE London in the 1980s, and even then they were in a mess. Anyone who has worked in children's services knows that parents have to fight to get their kids assessed, and the waiting list can be years. 

I appreciate your input, and sorry if it became a whole thing I wasn't quite sure what was or wasn't being a bit too liberally interpretted by each of us and where in the text as it's a complex topic I don't mean to ascribe your intent per se as I'm literally not in your head, it's just the way certain phrasing combined overal made me feel dismissed. Maybe it's just down to the way meanings get lost in a text format and this conversation would have been easier to have face to face and that would have led to more mutual understanding. Who knows. ‍ I can read people better irl than I can communicate and I get lost without tone inflectors or emojis in text form. ‍

In light of this I recently spoke with a long term better-than-acquaintence-work-friend haha - who lives in the US. She has a 4 year old who is out of control. They have money, so the kid is a bit spoiled, but she's at her end and looked into ABA as a friend had a kid who was diagnosed & after ABA this child was literally changed. 

ABA were pushing to get her son diagnosed "High Functioning Au Spectrum" as he is quite gifted as well, but she's a composer and the father a filmmaker, so they're in an artist community. But in our hour long conversation I had inquired about far more matters concerning the kids well being, parenting styles and perhaps discovered there might be a potential of ADHD in the family. But!! ABA were ready to diagnose based on intense interests, watching the same thing on repeat and meltdown/tantrum issues that may or may not just be a 4 year old. We discovered some traumatising events and while she's a great mom, she doesn't always give him her full attention when needed and can be a bit patronising - antagonising a situation without realising it. This kid speaks 3 languages and can tell you in graphic detail how he'd like to annihilate his enemies. He's competitive and - perhaps impulsive? But ADHD wasn't even raised as a possibility.

Yet, here is another company who needs Hard Data - proven effectiveness, to keep their funding. All the better with NT kids! (Eye roll...)

As you mentioned awaiting diagnosis, I was trying to help with the technical terminology to speak with professionals.

My apologies! 

JuniperFromGallifrey said:

What can mark the difference is a matter of socialisation and language. I find all my ADHD friends understand NT and Au communication (even if they prefer Au speak) but because they understand NT's, they deal with far more social anxiety than Autistic individuals. And the rest of the traits we seem to share. ADHD have a little more trouble with inertia.

That's all me too. In text form it's difficult but face to face, I can reed them, I receive the signals but I don't transmit them back very well. That social anxiety is added toby the fact that we are painfiully aware of what we are not able to do socially.

Sorry but I think you misunderstand me, I see why you might like things to be clear cut but I have to insist you stop trying to pigeonhole me and my experience which although it's nobody's fault I can only explain in a limited and imperfect form here at best. I respect your opinion generally here on the forum but you don't live with me or in my shoes and I'm starting to feel uncofortable because it feels like you want to police my identity and shared experiences to fit your own view. If you can't accept my own expertise on my own life can we just drop it? Because I don't want this to be the thing to come between us.

That's the Montropic brain! Capable of hyper-focus and also too many things all at once. There are certain markers which make one ADHD or Autistic. I have a feeling over the next 10 years we'll be seeing too many cases of ADHD'rs misdiagnosed as Autistic and Autistic misdiagnosed as ADHD.  clinicians who are NT don't quite get the polarities because they don't understand how we're similar. The not being able to sleep because I need to be up at a certain hour for an appointment is something most of us who are older remember all too well of our 20's and 30's. I promise it gets better as you get older, though I wish I'd know when I was younger! 

What can mark the difference is a matter of socialisation and language. I find all my ADHD friends understand NT and Au communication (even if they prefer Au speak) but because they understand NT's, they deal with far more social anxiety than Autistic individuals. And the rest of the traits we seem to share. ADHD have a little more trouble with inertia. But I find, when I partner with an ADHD friend they can spin a dozen plates and I will end up tidying them up. As a team: I need closure and detail and they can be amazing at big picture while also speaking my language. They can do the client management and I can handle the data. Neither of us seems like like admin, but needs must.

No, wait, it's 18 interests, just tripped over some hobby paraphernalia I had forgot to put away in the hallway actually and I remembered it. It's funny because now I suddenly got the bug to get all the stuff out and paint the Warhammer models again.

I think for others it may well be so, (re: all just autism), but no I am sure, I actually relate more to people in ADHD spaces than I do here, (and that's not a reflection on my fellow autists here) despite having a childhood diagnosis of autism.
Unfortunately I'd never have the spoons or focus to write what I estimate to be a small book describing every reason why, even just a "short" list would be too long for me to write.
(Post script edit: I know that looks ironic considering  my replies can get quite long, but that's because I regularly go back and add stuff I forgot to mention in the first typing, also my bio is only that long because I add a bit more every couple of weeks or so as and when that info becomes more relevant to "pin" somewhere.)

Though I'll address one more easy to desbride one now: My brain isn't always working in a monotropic way, I'm actually polytropic it's just that the interest that is "at the fore" switches around, I hyper focus on it for maybe a few weeks and then it swaps back round with one of the other- hold on I'll count them on a bit of paper- 17 special interests I have had in rotation in the last 2 years.

I did enjoy reading your insight though, and thank you for using bite size paragraphing, sometimes I find lareger replies on this forum and if it's very wall to wall text it is often impossible to read in a single sitting.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

Speed could just as likely be indicative of a seasoned professional that just knew what they were looking at in you and didn't feel like inconveniencing you with more hoop jumping when they were already really confident about the results regardless.

battybats said:

This is a really good point- one of the people who did my assessment said that she knew fairly on in the in-person session that I was autistic. If they really know what they're looking for then they'll find it easily when it's there.

Thank you both for this invaluable input.

I promise I will read your reply later properly when I have more energy and focus, I just wanted to confirm I've seen you've replied, and at least on what I can get my brain to skim rn it looks like there are a lot of very interesting points in there so I appreciate you took the time to write a response.

^^ these are some occurring differences, and ways to navigate as an "Example" - from everything I've read back in to the early 1900's, Schizoid 'Delusions' are simply add-ons to the Autism-Spectrum Neurotype. The added 'bonus' is this mechanism in the brain which works with the qualities of the Occipital Lobe and differentiates between being Daydream and Night-dreams, not quite operating correctly. 

For instance, if the Delta Waves, which dominate while we sleep, are active while we're awake.

Add these brain variations to an Autistic Hyperphant with their ability to see systems and the communication difference of the Autistic and making sense of the world becomes incredibly difficult! It's great there's a medication which can help. 

I do have some theories! And really, you could try them to see if they work, but you'd also need to rule out certain attributes that males and females in western cultures default to which get in the way.

For start, everyone would need to take time to recognise how they thrive best - long protected uninterrupted space, in which case the other can become a gate-keeper and protector of - or bursts of breaks which the other can also become a facilitator of. 

The element of interruptions is not a small detail and can be more important than finances. However, everyone wins with Dependability, Respectfulness and Always earning Trust (except when designated moments of burnout / regrouping occur). 

Both work with Aion/Aeon rather than linear time. Which means we both can get stuck in a moment and need vigilance to be present in modern society. 

Both are hyper-sensory which actually means you can sharpen your senses, best done one thing at a time and with taste or sound. Wine tasting / Album date-night Wednesdays for example.

With ADHD, there's a forget and move on, which is fantastic in some ways and irritating in others haha

With Autism there's an inability to forget and move on until the issue is fully resolved, which is also great in situations for an automatic drive and irritating. :) 

So with the above, if I'm married to an ADHD'r, I'll have to print out a notice and tape it to my door: Today I'm: "STRESSED LOVE YOU ALSO PLEASE DON'T BUG ME" 

Understanding the others strengths and limits is key to knowing what to expect and how to work with it!

I hear you - this all sounds like Autism. It's something we have in common with ADHD and Dyslexics! This has to do with making hyper-connexions, sensing everything-all-at-once, and rather than being in tune with Linear time (Chronos), a being in Aion/Aeon (an eternal sense of time) - more easily lost or stuck in a moment. We all share this. 

If we go back to Freud, who is a bit of a Grandfather of outlining the Neurotic (NeuroTypical) Psyche, and follow the understanding of NeuroTypical-isms (or technically called Neuroses), we can find grounded definitions for something like OCD.

OCD is good to contrast with Hyper-Vigilance. While OCD is something harmful to the self, we want to stop but cannot, Hyper-Vigilance is a matter of keeping the chaos at bay and life in a fluid, working hopefully functional order. OCD is usually a momentary blip in the NeuroTypical or Neurotic type and arrives from social impact - from those secret signals and codes the Autistic will not have "picked up". 

A massive part of the problem isn't just NeuroTypicals trying to cash in on the "Autism Industry" getting things wrong due to a completely wrong perspective, creating chaos and misdiagnoses and arresting the process globally of the understanding, but then the push back from Autistics who are trying to set the record straight, some with a louder voice who might need better accountability hacking into bits of misrepresented psychology and then also getting things wrong. It's a MESS!

If you're interested, I'd suggest to just start focusing on your potential. If you can make absolute magic multi-tasking but still have the Autistic Bonus of communicating how we express and use language, then yes, I'd say find each Au / ADHD strengths and go with them. But if you notice you begin to thrive by self-direction forced engagement to finish One-thing-at-a-Time (I can explain good hacks to do this), then like the rest of us, who share a hyper-sensory Salience Network and the Monotropic Brain. 

What I needed when I was young was forced pauses. Stop, breathe, take a moment to regroup and collect my thoughts. I am accident prone and forgetful if rushed. If given a deadline, I will construct how to meet it at my pace. I work best doing one little specific task to completion. And I sometimes have to open my mouth and speak out loud self-directing tasks. I need to envision what I'm wearing the night before. Envision how my day will play out and write down the tasks. ADHD has a biological complexity which changes the rules. One won't be able to just do the boring task and feel a strange sense of Resolve / Completion from "just doing it". 

This understanding of my capacity didn't happen over night but took years. And most importantly I had to learn to create protected time/space for uninterrupted (by myself or others) engagement. x

This is a really good point- one of the people who did my assessment said that she knew fairly on in the in-person session that I was autistic. If they really know what they're looking for then they'll find it easily when it's there.

Just a thought but if you happened to have a less experienced phsyciatrist or one that had only seen a narrow range of autistic expression up until that point in their career they might need to do more tests, and a longer assessment just to be sure. Speed could just as likely be indicative of a seasoned professional that just knew what they were looking at in you and didn't feel like inconveniencing you with more hoop jumping when they were already really confident about the results regardless.

Indeed.  More wise words.....and congratulations on your demonstrably sound relationship together.  16 years don't lie !  

I think in practice it involves each party trying to change what they can towards the other, and accepting what each other cannot change. And hoping that is enough, but we've survived 16 years!

Whether a person can change their behaviour in the context of their condition should be a part of it I believe.

Very, very wise words, I believe also, as you.

I didn't realise that about the hallucinations, so that's interesting, thanks.

My mother often said that people were doing strange things and that vans and the police followed her, so in fact that could be hallucinations as well as delusions.

With regard to relationship counselling, I had that with my former partner before we were each diagnosed as autistic.

Having a context for the counsellor to analyse behaviour and find a way forward is essential I think, so I can see your dilemma.

Whether a person can change their behaviour in the context of their condition should be a part of it I believe.

All the best with that.

It does sound difficult to work out, especially when she is gone, but it does sound a plausible theory. A thing with hallucinations is the person doesn't always know they are not real, and they might not be visual, but can be auditory or in fact any of the senses. So she might not have known she was having them, or might not have shared if she knew. I guess the only thing you can be fairly sure of is that it sounds like she was neurodivergent in some way.

My husband had his diagnosis and meds long before we met, he had two hospitalisations in his young adulthood and had been stable for decades. I do wonder if he would still be more stable if he had never tried to come off the meds, as he is now on a higher dose than he used to be, or if it just gets worse with age. But what-ifs are not much use.

I'd like to find a relationship counsellor who understands both his condition and AuDHD to advise us how best to relate! He doesn't seem able to not trigger me in a stressful situation even when he has been told very precisely what the trigger is. I can only assume it is his condition, or possibly the meds. And I'm sure I could do better at caring for his brain if I only understood it better. Maybe we'll get there by the time one of dies, haha!