Rule 4 - Be Nice

1. Being nice to people doesn't extend to not disagreeing with their views. Someone telling you they think you are wrong should not be taken as a personal attack.
2. If your gender identity is so fragile that people disagreeing with your thoughts or feelings on gender identity can invalidate it it's not much of an identity. If I went up to a black person and said 'I don't really think you are black,' they're not going to think or feel they are less black because of it. They would just think it absurd. I would expect trans people to take the same approach.
3. Just because someone doesn't agree with every iota of your philosophy of what it is to be trans or what trans rights is or respect for trans people looks like ... or for that mater if they just happen to think reasonable minds may differ on these topics and its ok to have debates about them ... it doesn't mean these people hate you or are oppressing you.
4. A safe space is a space where it's safe to have a frank exchange of ideas, motivated by a genuine desire for truth rather than malice towards others. If all you want to do is set up a division of 'us and them' and try and censor those you consider to be the them it is you who is preventing this from being a safe space for all.
5. It's possible for people to disagree with your particular views on trans issues and still be sympathetic towards trans peoples difficulties.

I agree with some of your points, but not number 2. Even with black people - what about an albino black person? They probably suffer this kind of response a lot. Even some mixed race siblings can have such different skin tones people don't believe they have the same parents, which must be difficult for them. Also, I am happy for you that your own autistic identity is so secure or that you have not had people disbelieve it.

Ok maybe that’s not the best example. It would be interesting here to talk about the tension between people who see their racial identity as black vs people who would describe themselves as say Nigerian or Ugandan etc. but probably not helpful to this discussion.

my point is anyone can think what they like about your identity but that’s just an opinion and unless you believe that opinion is true, or unless it effects you directly why should you care?

if people tell you not to step on the cracks in the pavement lest you break your mothers back would you care? Yes I suppose if someone’s opinion leads to your whole community rejecting you that might be different. But there is a big gap between that and an intellectual discussion on a forum.

Certainly more privilged if you've never been sexually assaulted and then told you were asking for it because you were wearing a strappy top in a heatwave.

I'm sorry you have to live the rest of your life around aggressive people who are on average 10 inches taller and 6 stone heavier than you. It's very intimidating, isn't it? If I limit time outside I occasionally get through a day with only one or two men shouting at me, but it's usually at least half a dozen. If it went down to once a week I would consider myself enormously privileged.

I mean let me tell you as a guy who grew up in a rough neighbourhood there is nothing special about knowing the people around you can and might try to kick you in the head. The only difference is for you is that you’d asume they did it because of your gender identity and my first guess would be they did it for my wallet.

this supposed safety privalidge many people claim cis white men have, I’m sorry but it doesn’t exist, not in my experience of being mugged, threatened with guns, threatened in general, shouted at out of car windows, generally jeered at by drunk people etc.

....indeed - that would be a good one for the "fact of the day" thread.

It is a genetic fact that there is more diversity within Africa, than there is anywhere outside it. An Irishman and a Japanese are likely to be more closely genetically related, than a Nigerian and a Somali.

In lieu of having that hug reaction there's whisperings about, here's the hug.

This is such a privileged post. I know that almost every stranger on the street has power over me because if they decide to kick the *** out of me there's literally nothing I can do to stop it.

I couldn't care less what people think of me as long as they keep it to themselves. Indifference would be bliss.

Hi. I agree with your post almost in full. But i would like to stress how important i think individual actions in the world can be.  Especially the written word. It can be immensely powerful.

AuTriker said:

Because those people's opinion may not directly affect you, but it may directly affect someone else, so if you can help them to question their opinion that could help others.

The beginning of reducing abuse is increasing understanding.

I would say generally not. Only the opinions of people who have power over you have the power to effect you. And that is generally going to be business owners, government officials etc, people subject to non discrimination laws, or it's going to be people who have emotional power over you because of personal connection, family, lovers, etc.

And that brings me to my second point. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. This is a profound truth I once heard preacher say. If your definition of reducing abuse is bullying people into silence all you get is more indifference. What's better the family that argues because they don't see eye to eye or the family that cuts off people they can't see eye to eye with? When you bully people into silence their views don't change, they just stop giving a dam about the people bullying them. And then when a bigger bully come along and decides to step on you they just laugh and cheer.

Peter said:

unless it effects you directly why should you care?

I am reminded of the poem "First they came". Because if many people have a bad opinion about autists or about trans people then abuse is more likely. If we as autists want people to understand and accept us, then we should be understanding of other people too, or we are just hypocrites.

Because those people's opinion may not directly affect you, but it may directly affect someone else, so if you can help them to question their opinion that could help others.

The beginning of reducing abuse is increasing understanding. An individual may not be able to change society, apart from a few exceptional people, but most of us do not have such a platform. But we can be part of change for the better, first by increasing our own understanding, then by sharing that with others. 

My own understanding of trans people is woefully inadequate, made harder for me by my own weak identification of gender due to my own autism. I struggle to understand why anyone would care enough about their gender to put themselves through all that. But clearly they do care deeply or they wouldn't. 

Peter said:

if someone’s opinion leads to your whole community rejecting you

Which has been the experience of some trans people, and to them it probably doesn't feel like there is such a big gap between that and an intellectual discussion on a forum. Because this is one of their communities and some of the opinions expressed are rejecting of them. Or can feel rejecting even if they are actually not, because they have experienced rejection so are more sensitive of it, and also people on the spectrum can be rejection sensitive to start with.

Peter said:

unless it effects you directly why should you care?

I am reminded of the poem "First they came". Because if many people have a bad opinion about autists or about trans people then abuse is more likely. If we as autists want people to understand and accept us, then we should be understanding of other people too, or we are just hypocrites.

Because those people's opinion may not directly affect you, but it may directly affect someone else, so if you can help them to question their opinion that could help others.

The beginning of reducing abuse is increasing understanding. An individual may not be able to change society, apart from a few exceptional people, but most of us do not have such a platform. But we can be part of change for the better, first by increasing our own understanding, then by sharing that with others. 

My own understanding of trans people is woefully inadequate, made harder for me by my own weak identification of gender due to my own autism. I struggle to understand why anyone would care enough about their gender to put themselves through all that. But clearly they do care deeply or they wouldn't. 

Peter said:

if someone’s opinion leads to your whole community rejecting you

Which has been the experience of some trans people, and to them it probably doesn't feel like there is such a big gap between that and an intellectual discussion on a forum. Because this is one of their communities and some of the opinions expressed are rejecting of them. Or can feel rejecting even if they are actually not, because they have experienced rejection so are more sensitive of it, and also people on the spectrum can be rejection sensitive to start with.

Certainly more privilged if you've never been sexually assaulted and then told you were asking for it because you were wearing a strappy top in a heatwave.

I'm sorry you have to live the rest of your life around aggressive people who are on average 10 inches taller and 6 stone heavier than you. It's very intimidating, isn't it? If I limit time outside I occasionally get through a day with only one or two men shouting at me, but it's usually at least half a dozen. If it went down to once a week I would consider myself enormously privileged.

I mean let me tell you as a guy who grew up in a rough neighbourhood there is nothing special about knowing the people around you can and might try to kick you in the head. The only difference is for you is that you’d asume they did it because of your gender identity and my first guess would be they did it for my wallet.

this supposed safety privalidge many people claim cis white men have, I’m sorry but it doesn’t exist, not in my experience of being mugged, threatened with guns, threatened in general, shouted at out of car windows, generally jeered at by drunk people etc.

In lieu of having that hug reaction there's whisperings about, here's the hug.

This is such a privileged post. I know that almost every stranger on the street has power over me because if they decide to kick the *** out of me there's literally nothing I can do to stop it.

I couldn't care less what people think of me as long as they keep it to themselves. Indifference would be bliss.

Hi. I agree with your post almost in full. But i would like to stress how important i think individual actions in the world can be.  Especially the written word. It can be immensely powerful.

AuTriker said:

Because those people's opinion may not directly affect you, but it may directly affect someone else, so if you can help them to question their opinion that could help others.

The beginning of reducing abuse is increasing understanding.

I would say generally not. Only the opinions of people who have power over you have the power to effect you. And that is generally going to be business owners, government officials etc, people subject to non discrimination laws, or it's going to be people who have emotional power over you because of personal connection, family, lovers, etc.

And that brings me to my second point. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. This is a profound truth I once heard preacher say. If your definition of reducing abuse is bullying people into silence all you get is more indifference. What's better the family that argues because they don't see eye to eye or the family that cuts off people they can't see eye to eye with? When you bully people into silence their views don't change, they just stop giving a dam about the people bullying them. And then when a bigger bully come along and decides to step on you they just laugh and cheer.