Rule 4 - Be Nice

So another thread relating to trans rights has been locked under Rule 4 ‘Be Nice’ , but shouldn’t hatred directed at trans people be actually deleted? The thread was going really well with lots of trans, gender fluid and queer people supporting each other, but as usual the cis hets dive in to invalidate us. The mod response is not to target the prejudice but to lock the entire thread! This is wrong. Can we trans and queer and pride people on the spectrum not have a safe space here? I know the mods have a policy of non-deletion but this is wrong, were racist comments being made I’m sure they’d pounce on that pdq, but hate against trans people is unchallenged and left to stand. Apalling of you NAS!

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    1. Being nice to people doesn't extend to not disagreeing with their views. Someone telling you they think you are wrong should not be taken as a personal attack.
    2. If your gender identity is so fragile that people disagreeing with your thoughts or feelings on gender identity can invalidate it it's not much of an identity. If I went up to a black person and said 'I don't really think you are black,' they're not going to think or feel they are less black because of it. They would just think it absurd. I would expect trans people to take the same approach.
    3. Just because someone doesn't agree with every iota of your philosophy of what it is to be trans or what trans rights is or respect for trans people looks like ... or for that mater if they just happen to think reasonable minds may differ on these topics and its ok to have debates about them ... it doesn't mean these people hate you or are oppressing you.
    4. A safe space is a space where it's safe to have a frank exchange of ideas, motivated by a genuine desire for truth rather than malice towards others. If all you want to do is set up a division of 'us and them' and try and censor those you consider to be the them it is you who is preventing this from being a safe space for all.
    5. It's possible for people to disagree with your particular views on trans issues and still be sympathetic towards trans peoples difficulties.
  • I agree with some of your points, but not number 2. Even with black people - what about an albino black person? They probably suffer this kind of response a lot. Even some mixed race siblings can have such different skin tones people don't believe they have the same parents, which must be difficult for them. Also, I am happy for you that your own autistic identity is so secure or that you have not had people disbelieve it.

  • Ok maybe that’s not the best example. It would be interesting here to talk about the tension between people who see their racial identity as black vs people who would describe themselves as say Nigerian or Ugandan etc. but probably not helpful to this discussion.

    my point is anyone can think what they like about your identity but that’s just an opinion and unless you believe that opinion is true, or unless it effects you directly why should you care?

    if people tell you not to step on the cracks in the pavement lest you break your mothers back would you care? Yes I suppose if someone’s opinion leads to your whole community rejecting you that might be different. But there is a big gap between that and an intellectual discussion on a forum.

  • Certainly more privilged if you've never been sexually assaulted and then told you were asking for it because you were wearing a strappy top in a heatwave.

  • I'm sorry you have to live the rest of your life around aggressive people who are on average 10 inches taller and 6 stone heavier than you. It's very intimidating, isn't it? If I limit time outside I occasionally get through a day with only one or two men shouting at me, but it's usually at least half a dozen. If it went down to once a week I would consider myself enormously privileged.

  • I mean let me tell you as a guy who grew up in a rough neighbourhood there is nothing special about knowing the people around you can and might try to kick you in the head. The only difference is for you is that you’d asume they did it because of your gender identity and my first guess would be they did it for my wallet.

    this supposed safety privalidge many people claim cis white men have, I’m sorry but it doesn’t exist, not in my experience of being mugged, threatened with guns, threatened in general, shouted at out of car windows, generally jeered at by drunk people etc.

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  • I mean let me tell you as a guy who grew up in a rough neighbourhood there is nothing special about knowing the people around you can and might try to kick you in the head. The only difference is for you is that you’d asume they did it because of your gender identity and my first guess would be they did it for my wallet.

    this supposed safety privalidge many people claim cis white men have, I’m sorry but it doesn’t exist, not in my experience of being mugged, threatened with guns, threatened in general, shouted at out of car windows, generally jeered at by drunk people etc.

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