Struggling to speak in new situations/with new people - different from mutism

Hi there, I saw there is a "new" condition called Social (pragmatic) communication disorder on the DSM-5 ', separate to 'autism spectrum disorder'. This diagnosis would be given where someone exhibits social interaction and social communication difficulties but does not show restricted, repetitive patterns of behaviour, interests or activities.  I found it on this site at https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/diagnostic-criteria/all-audiences Might be of interest to you

i get like that to as i find it hard , not knowing people and if there are brighter than me i just sit back and listen but if they start getting on my nerves or i dont like the sound of the voice , i will just shut of  

I just wanted to say how helpful I have found this thread. As I have spent most of my life (48) not knowing I could be autistic and being so baffled to what is making me almost shut down in some social situations and finding it so challenging to keep a conversation going, reading these posts has been incredibly reassuring. 

I have never heard of the term situational mutism before, but it certainly has helped me make sense as to why I sometimes struggle to talk, so thank you. The post mentioning a stim with pressure on thumbs is something I've always done and do, I just hide it behind my back. Which leads to comments oh that's a very regal pose you are doing. 

I've not really found a way to overcome my struggles with conversations, it still makes me anxious, my son is five and has a number of parties coming up which I do dread. I had a tip from a therapist who said I should tell myself now it is time for everyone to listen to me, no idea if this will work! 

Same here.

So instead of focusing on the person or situation, I've been focusing on developing my own needs & tendancies. I have found if I care less about the outcome then I relax more in the situation.

So, if I can 'genuinely' develop an internal confidence to not care, and know I am ok, and the person I am should be accepted, then I relax more.

Even when rejected or ignored, you are still worth listing to. So speak your truth, and those who don't like it or won't listen, then they aren't the right people to engage. Simples.

You can still be kind whilst doing this. But it does take practice.

I think 'we' as ND often feel we need to fit in. We don't. We need to be accepted. That's different. But also equal.

Oh and I love your pressure stims :) I sucked my index finger and thumb on my left hand probably until a bit later than most kids suck their thumbs, which may have been a stim. And I fiddled with things through most of school, until they replaced my locker key and keyrings for a silly plastic thing that simply didn't hold the same sensory satisfaction. I started again and uni and fully intend never to stop. But that's another example of something subtle that would easily 'slip through the net' at assessment I think.

So glad you have a good therapist :) He sounds brilliant, and I hope the starter helps. 

Yes, agreed re the imposter syndrome. As you say, the criteria are very deficits-based, which I think alienates many of us. So many of them could be rephrased as strengths or at least neutral characteristics. For instance, instead of asking, 'do you have repetitive and narrow interests?' they could say, 'How deeply do you fall in love (with things/ideas/places/people etc)?' If I had been asked how trusting I was as a kid, or how committed I am in friendships, this would have transformed my whole relationship to the formal recognition process.

I'm so glad it helped!

Yes, my therapist is very affirming, he's amazing.  He has some idea about autism but says he is enjoying learning more about it from my perspective. And he said that when I just explained how I can't tell how other people feel just by looking at them, I need them to say if they like me or whatever out loud.  His response was to give me some verbal feedback about how he feels about the sessions which was the most affirming moment for me and made such a difference. 

I'm going to ask him about a starter next time. 

I think the imposter feeling among autistic people is more common because of the way medical people observe it and describe it in the diagnostic criteria.  Prime example,  "stereotyped repetitive motor movements."  A lot of my sensory feedback comes from pressure stims, but an observer is not going to notice how tightly I cross my legs or tuck my finger in beside my thumb.  It's so much more subtle than flapping, but it serves the same function.  But it wouldn't get me any more marks on the test, as it were.  Similarly, in my assesment they didn't pick up on me having a narrow and deep interest- but my interest is autism and the whole experience was me indulging my interest!

Yes, that feels very true. I think it's especially painful when I'm trying that interact with other autists with whom I don't have shared interests, and then I struggle to engage with them. The sense of isolation can be particularly acute in that situation, I think.

sphynx said:

And the bit about finding it hard to engage in conversations that don't interest us, but I'm guessing that's the same for most people, regardless of neurotype?

I would say that it is a lot harder for autistic people, due to our monotropic way of thinking. Our interests tend to be a lot stronger and it is harder to focus on other things.

That is so helpful Tink, thank you. I really appreciate the validation you offer - it makes so much sense. I think the very clear, logical way you've articulated it means I'm unlikely to doubt myself in this area again, at least for a while. I've experienced so much doubt and imposter syndrome around being Autistic that anyshift like this is invaluable, so thank you :)

Thanks also for the scripting tip. This also makes sense, also I sometimes find that struggling to speak comes up mid-conversation as well, so maybe having scripts for getting things started up again is something to explore. 

I'll keep a mental note of your therapy tip! I hope your therapist is ND-affirming - if so maybe you could suggest this? I usually start my sessions by asking how my therapist is doing - they won't tell me, of course, but to me this is still more than small talk - it's important to me to express that I care about them too. (Hope that doesn't sound like virtue signalling, it's really not meant to.) They respond with something like, 'I'm well,' or 'I'm ok,' and then ask how I'm doing. It feels predictable in a safe way, and because it unfolds from something I ask I feel in control.

Thank you, another very comprehensive response :)

If only humans did have rewind buttons! That and the lack of noise filtration are the parts of your answer that resonate most with me. And the bit about finding it hard to engage in conversations that don't interest us, but I'm guessing that's the same for most people, regardless of neurotype?

What's confusing is that communication is actually one of my biggest strengths. I love words and language, and others tell me I'm skilled with them. Writing this though, I realise that my skill in that area is actually with communicating ideas - it's more of an intellectual and empathy thing rather than a social thing, if that makes sense - hopeless at small talk.

I think the distimction is kind of an arbitrary medical one based on NT observation.  It supposes that there is a difference between not being able to talk and not being willing to talk.

I think there's a lot of overlap in the reason why mutism happens- nerves/confidence, not knowing what to say or how to say it, processing delay and finding the space to speak.

I also think that mutism, situational or otherwise, happens on a scale, and the medicals have drawn a line somewhere along that scale to say that at this point it's mutism or selective mutism, and at any point less than that it's just a person being crap and they need to get better at it.  Which is rubbish.

If you don't know what to say, then you are unable to speak.  If you have an idea what to say but can't get it out, then the result is the same.  Even the times when you can speak but it's difficult are part of that scale.

In regards to scripting, sometimes it's enough for me just to script the conversation starter.  I've been known to do this at work and still walk past the person several times before I manage to start the conversation though.  A starter might work for therapy sessions.  I would actually love it if my therapist did this- just an open question to get things going and if it was the same every time that would be even better.

My bad for not understanding your question properly. I should have clarified what you meant by mutism before launching into a reply about situational mutism. I think I'm understanding better the type of situation you're referring to.

It really is a complex area and so little research has been done. In the past it has been wrongly assumed that it is all down to anxiety. If the anxiety were magically removed would we be able to speak freely? Based upon my own experiences I don't think so. 

Interactive verbal communication is such a huge effort and so tiring that it has to be really worth the effort, something which interests us. Perhaps that's why you found it easier to contribute in group tasks that interested you. If I'm not interested in a conversation that is happening around me then I am much less likely to have anything I want to say.

There is the processing delay for verbal language that many autists experience. It takes time for me to process what is said and then even more time for me to think of my reply. I tend to think of what I could or should have said long afterwards. Of course conversations tend to move much quicker than that out in the real world. I am still floundering with trying to process something said earlier and the conversation has moved on too quickly for me. If watching TV I can rewind and replay or use subtitles to help. In the real world humans do not have pause and rewind buttons! 

Our brains cannot filter sounds. In a noisy environment, where there may be background noise and multiple conversations happening, it becomes just a 'wall of noise' to me. I cannot focus on one particular conversation that I am supposed to be trying to be part of. I try and lip read, not being able to do that must make it even more difficult for you.

There is the lack of social skills and reading social situations, not knowing when there is a suitable gap to speak as I previously mentioned. Trying to speak and then somebody else speaks at the same time, which puts me off trying again. 

All of these factors (and probably many more that I haven't thought of) can contribute to the situation. 

Hi, 
Thank you for such an honest and detailed response. I know of situational mutism, but as I mentioned in the main post I'm not sure this is the same as what I experience. While I resonate with almost everything you shared in relation to group environments in particular, I'm not sure that I'm literally unable to speak in the situations where  ifficulties arise. I was very active in answering teachers' questions in school, but then really struggled to engage as soon as we had to work in groups - by 'engage' I mean interact and contribute, except during tasks that really interested me not the others. 

What made me post this was that I joined a new group yesterday - one that's linked to another aspect of my identity - and found it really difficult to know what to say/how to interact with those I met. But again, I did speak a little, and perhaps if I had had no choice I could have spoken more. 

It's interesting that you mention the theory about mutism being less likely to occur when interacting with neurokin. There are times when I have found this - the from still couple of times I attended a local Autistic meetup group were very freeing, as I was able to speak much more confidently than I can in most other group situations, particularly on a first meeting. The last couple of times have been much harder. The group has been bigger, and the venue has been very noisy - both factors that contribute to me struggling with communication. Yet everyone else in the group has seemed to be able to communicate very well in those meetings, which made me question my hunch about this being potentially connected with being autistic. (I'm blind as well so can't lipread to aid communication in noisy environments.) 

Having said all that, I am incredibly lucky to know other Autistic people as well as the amazing community on this forum. I hope you can find those people too.

I suffer from this too. As far as I remember it started at school. I would be unable to answer if a teacher asked me a question in class, even though I knew the answer and tried to speak.

The official medical term is selective mutism. However, along with many of the autistic community, I do not like that term. It implies that we are choosing not to speak, which is absolutely not the case. I prefer to use the term situational mutism, which better reflects that it only applies in certain situations.

I do use scripts and I find it helps to some extent. However, like you say, as soon as the interaction goes off script I am thrown and then it is much more likely for the situational mutism to happen. 

Group situations is a big problem for me too. I suffered from it when working in open plan offices or attending any type of social event or local groups. I joined a local special interest group a few years ago, thinking that because I was interested in the topic it might be easier for me to speak in a group situation. It didn't work. At the first meeting I introduced myself to the group, using a well rehearsed script. I continued to attend the group meetings regularly for a couple of years but I don't think I ever spoke again. It never got any easier.

Sometimes I have something to say but cannot speak. Sometimes I can speak but have nothing to say, do not know what to say or cannot find a suitable opportunity.

I think the problem with groups is that there is so much happening at once I cannot keep up. If I do manage to follow some of the conversation and think of something to say then I can't find a suitable gap to speak. By the time there is a gap the conversation will have moved on and the comment is no longer appropriate. Speaking one to one is a quiet environment, with no distractions, I find much easier.

The only person I am really comfortable speaking with is my mum. Even with her my speech can just shut down if it becomes too much. If there is anyone else present or other distractions then I am much more likely to become situationally mute.

There is a link to a couple of Aucademy videos on the topic in this post from a few months ago.

https://community.autism.org.uk/f/adults-on-the-autistic-spectrum/27493/aucademy-videos-on-situational-mutism

An interesting theory from the videos is that the situational mutism is less likely to happen when we are communicating with others from our own neurokin. I have not yet had the opportunity to test out this theory, as I do not know any other autistic people outside of this forum (apart from my undiagnosed mum). This theory may be relevant for you if you are planning to offer therapy to autistic clients.

On this website you can purchase or download for free an 'I am autistic' card. This explains some of the difficulties we tend to experience and can be useful to show in a situation where you cannot speak.

I deal with it by avoiding the kinds of situations where it happens as much as possible. I opt to communicate by email or live chat, rather than in person or by telephone. I would be interested to hear if anyone has managed to overcome such difficulties and what their strategy was.