Managing the internal anger response to an external situation

@NAS79256

Haha, it's a great job for anyone with anger issues! 

Autonomistic said:

Having thought some more about this I'm not sure that CBT would be of any help. My understanding is that it involves examining the thought processes during the situation. I simply do not know what the thought processes are. When the particular noise that gets to me starts I can go from zero to ready to explode in a millisecond. I assume it's due to being autistic and the sensory aspect of the noise

Yes, it is the zero to ready explode in a millisecond that happens to me with the cars too. If they drive towards me at a reasonable speed and pass in a suitably precautionary manner, I am fine, and actually feel quite calm and happy... but when they don't, then that is when my response is rapid and, internally, out of control. I am currently on a 5 month waiting list for an assessment to see if I am suitable for CBT for another issue, but like you I do not think it would help with this. The biological reason being, according to what I was reading earlier today,  that our nervous system has leapt into full action BEFORE we have had time to consciously process what is going on.

Autonomistic said:

A young man who has recently moved into my neighbourhood has one of those modified 'boy racer' cars with a very loud engine (that sounds more like a motorbike). Whenever he goes out he sits and revs the engine for 5-10 minutes first. I don't know why he thinks it is necessary to do that. I can feel the anger building the longer I have to listen to this noise

There is a not so young man here two doors away with a car just like that and it has not been unknown for him to leave his engine running for up to twenty minutes before finally driving away! Even with the windows closed and double glazing I can FEEL the vibrations on my body as well as hear them. Like you, this does not provoke an immediate anger response, it is more of a slow building simmering irritation that gradually reaches a crescendo. I end up sitting in my room shouting "shut up" and when it finally gets unbearable, I even consider marching round and turning the ignition off myself!

Autonomistic said:

I also get annoyed at people who leave their engine running unnecessarily. The noise and the obnoxious fumes they generate annoy me more and more the longer they leave it running. You know the type, they'll be sat in their car wearing a t-shirt in the middle of winter and they 'need' to keep the engine running to keep warm.

I know exactly the type.. and all the noise and fumes spewing out filling the air whilst they sit inside oblivious.. And sometimes they don't turn off their headlights either! :-) 

Autonomistic said:

One thing I have noticed is that my traffic related anger and annoyance seems to be directed more towards the drivers. When I'm driving myself I tend to see other cars as inanimate objects and I do not think about or look at who is driving. I'm wondering if that might help in your situation? Do you know if it is the cars or actions of the drivers that trigger your response?

I think it is my visual and aural perception of the speed at which the car is travelling that triggers my response, After this the anger is very much directed at the driver, being the one who is responsible for controlling the very large heavy metal object hurtling towards me! This then fades though into more of a distress at the way my body is feeling and ultimately winds up as frustration towards myself for not being able to control my physical response.

I wonder if with you, the deep part of your brain interprets the sound of the dog barking as an immediate life threatening emergency? Is your anger afterwards directed toward the dog or the owner, or neither?

I'm trying to be kinder to myself. I'm learning there's no right or wrong way. I have a strong sense of whats right (to me) and so this also gives a contrast of what is wrong. But this is hard to navigate. It's not my way of thinking is better it's just what I see is right.

I find people on an individual level fascinating but on the whole, irritating. Many people ARE thoughtless. I think that's a fact. But I don't like saying this because I'm not perfect myself and others may see me as thoughtless in other ways. (I might drive fast through a quiet village for instance....Not on purpose but I'm just in my own world).

I think we care very deeply and expect others to be the same but they are not. I think the more we think about something or try not to think about it, the worse it gets. Maybe acceptance is key. I think in your situation,  safety is one of the factors though. 

Take matters into your own hands.... www.dorset.live/.../villagers-sick-waiting-speed-camera-6392167

Yes, the "it shouldn't be this way" feeling is a very strong feeling and difficult to ignore. As is the thought (which I am ashamed of) that people are stupid and thoughtless i.e putting up security lights that shine through other people's windows. I sometimes joke that I would like the phrases "What's WRONG with people?" and "I don't understand!" written on my grave.

I too try and focus on the good things, which to me is mainly nature - and I feel lucky that I can perceive it in such an exquisite and beautiful way... BUT the sense that "other people" always somehow spoil my enjoyment of it is always in the background. It is very hard to accept things that we feel so strongly shouldn't be that way, (especially when there is no need for them to be that way) and it is hard to tolerate things that our painful to our senses. 

People eating or drinking loudly is distressing to me too! I have never been able to contain myself in that situation and have always felt myself to be a horrible and intolerant person or explain to anyone the feeling it provokes in me.

I'd look for a way to use the fields if they are suitable for the purpose. Autism or not, there is a saying that has served me very well. "If you don't ask, you won't get". Most landowners unlike the stereotypes are aware of their priviledge and often more than willing to share aspects of it, if you ask them.

I occasionally have to ask ask landowners for permission to fly my drones, and they never say no...

Your flying car was promised in "interavia" magazine in the 1950's which listed a host of companies working on the technology and promising results, which suddenly stopped being talked about.

When the technology eventually escapes the censor, it will directly utilise the inner nuclear forces, by rearranging them into a different configuration that the one usually imposed by what is called "the force of gravity". The resultant propulsion system is indeed silent I am told, and you will be pleased to know that the only POSSIIBLE WAY we can hive "flying cars" is if each journey is managed by a computer network.

There's no point in rolling out a genuinely reliable flying car technology (that as far as I can comprehend will require very minimal "maintenance") only to leave it under human control!

Even pilots occasionally fail to miss the ground, your average human given 3 dimensions to navigate in, will soon get him or herself into great trouble, or collide with someone else, and that is even before we get to the "hold my beer and watch this" crowd. 

I miss the orange ones too! I wonder if it's the same with you and the road as me with the lights. Part of it is that I feel it "shouldn't be this way" ie a strong sense of what's right and wrong to us. A lot of the time when I'm out, I'm expecting it and this makes the frustration worse (it's here AGAIN! Why do people have to be so inconsiderate altho they are probably not even aware...) I'm going to try and focus on the good things like seeing the nature in the garden. But I think even on doing this, I'm trying to steer myself away from the feeling. I've tried accepting it but it's difficult.  My partner asked why I couldn't just tolerate it and I said that was very difficult to do. 

It provokes the same feeling I get when I hear people eating or drinking loudly.

My grandma sometimes tells me the story of when she was in an Italian restaurant, enjoying a meal, when all of a sudden the door to the kitchen flew open. A lot of angry shouting could be heard coming from the kitchen area. A pizza came hurtling out of the kitchen, followed by a plate which smashed. Followed by silence. Followed by some very subdued looking kitchen staff. I thought that anger like yours was almost to be expected in the catering industry!

No, it is definitely not good if you end up in a situation where your response is external and then people come and confront you! I know I would get into a lot of trouble if I acted on the feelings that cars make me have sometimes, no matter how justified I was! I think that living in a country like Japan for example might be a little easier as people are more likely to follow the rules and be respectful of one another. In the UK we have too much of a selfish culture where apparently everyone is entitled to do what they want and disregard everyone else.

It is funny that you should say that, as security lights are one of the few other things which provoke a strong feeling of anger in me. I am generally an extremely gentle person and genuinely get distressed if I as much as accidentally hurt a fly, or damage a plant... but security lights, well I am filled with a burning desire to DESTROY them. I actually think sometimes about how satisfying it would be to drive around with a gun and shoot them, just to stop them from turning on, especially the ones that are on all the time! I hasten to add here, that I do not own a gun, that I never will and that I think that guns should not exist anywhere, for any reason! But security lights, I am completely with you on how offensive they are! They are so often positioned in an ignorant and thoughtless manner and so often down right unnecessary. Where they are deemed to be necessary, they should be positioned in such a way that they only illuminate the intended area, are shielded to be focused downwards rather than outwards.... and they do not need to be so ridiculously, harmfully, piercingly bright. I miss the soft orange glow that lighting used to have.

Thankfully there aren't  any of those around here, that sounds very frustrating and dangerous too.

I spent a good chunk of last year campaigning to get a speed reduction or traffic calming measures through the village. It consumed all of my time as I am only able to think about one thing at once, and so I did so relentlessly and it used up all my energy until I was exhausted and had to drop it. Our local county councillor was brilliant but our Parish Councillors and City Councillors were not at all supportive. I quickly realised that I was up against a system that speaks a different language to me and does not think the same way as I do, and this was extremely demoralising and disheartening. I found it difficult to understand why anyone would NOT want to make our community a safer and more pleasant place to live! It might be time to take it up with them again though.

Thank you for your input.

I cannot avoid this road, or the others around, as in between are fields in which I am as a mere mortal am not allowed to walk! So I am going to have to set about working on somehow retraining my endocrine and adrenal system, no matter how many years it takes, otherwise I fear it will do me lasting damage. 

I have been reading a little about the endocrine system and fear response and it seems that it kicks in even BEFORE the conscious mind has time to process what is going on. This would explain why I have been unsuccessful at trying to THINK differently about it, my body is reacting before my thoughts. I am going to try and learn more about this so at least I will have a better understanding of what is happening.

Yes, driving on country roads can be stressful, especially with the impatient 'locals' that decide to drive up your exhaust pipe! Well it is these 'locals' that terrorise me on the roads, whether on foot or in my own car. Now I ignore them when they are behind me and refuse to be intimidated. I remind myself that around any corner there could be a cyclist, a pedestrian, a tractor pulling out of a field gate, someone on horseback, a pheasant or a deer on the road, or a flock or sheep or herd of cows, a combine harvester that takes up the entire road flying toward us, or another 'local' travelling on the wrong side of the road! There often are! If I can let them by, I do, otherwise I stick to driving at a speed I know to be safe and appropriate regardless of their impatience!

I have actually considered the possibility that one day in the not so far away future cars may be airborne. This may well offer a little more safety for my legs, as you say, but really the idea is otherwise quite horrifying to me! At least now there is the potential to get away from roads and therefore also get away from cars and also, even better, from other people.... but imagine if cars were not confined to roads and could go anywhere?! There would be no escape, and if they were anything like as noisy as planes and drones etc, there would be no peace! The only way that this technology could be acceptable would be if a) The cars, despite being airborne, were still confined to follow the routes of existing roads and b) They were designed to be silent.

It sounds as though the same thing happens to our bodies, albeit with different triggers. And yes, there is comfort in being able to exchange an account of our experiences with others who can understand.

Is it a particular dog or type of barking that triggers this response in you, or can it be any dog and any type of barking? I remember from the other post that you said you couldn't even go in your garden because that set off your neighbours dog barking and I can imagine how trapped that would make you feel. Do you think there is any chance that THEY might move?! Could you go out for a walk early in the morning or later in the evening to avoid them?

I can completely understand wanting to do anything to avoid the unpleasant feeling and I too sometimes feel that the stress and anxiety from going out outweighs the benefits.  But in doing so we forgo something essential to our happiness and well being. The only thing I would say that, is even if going out is absolutely awful, and even if at the time I am telling myself "this is it, I am NEVER going to leave the house again!", there is usually some relief at least in being able to return - and it then makes being inside feel better and more bearable than if you had not gone out at all. Sometimes it helps me to tell myself that I am GOING to go out at such and such a time tomorrow, and that it is non negotiable. Sort of like having an appointment with myself. It doesn't always work, but it does make it more likely that I will manage to leave the house than if I am not committed to it and then it is all to easy to put it off and generally do anything to avoid it.

Having thought some more about this I'm not sure that CBT would be of any help. My understanding is that it involves examining the thought processes during the situation. I simply do not know what the thought processes are. When the particular noise that gets to me starts I can go from zero to ready to explode in a millisecond. I assume it's due to being autistic and the sensory aspect of the noise.

Whereas other things that irritate and anger me tend to be more of a slow build up of annoyance and anger. Traffic for instance, which results in the intense anger response for you. 

Where it does really annoy me is on a local country lane I use for walks. It is very narrow, only the width of a car, and in places there is nowhere I can safely step off the road to avoid oncoming vehicles. There is a ditch with a stream on one side and a bank with lots of nettles on the other. Both unsafe places to try and stand to allow a vehicle to pass. I get annoyed at why they are using this lane in the first place. There is a perfectly wide main road they could use, which leads to the same place and only involves driving an extra 1/2 mile. 

I also get annoyed at people who leave their engine running unnecessarily. The noise and the obnoxious fumes they generate annoy me more and more the longer they leave it running. You know the type, they'll be sat in their car wearing a t-shirt in the middle of winter and they 'need' to keep the engine running to keep warm.

A young man who has recently moved into my neighbourhood has one of those modified 'boy racer' cars with a very loud engine (that sounds more like a motorbike). Whenever he goes out he sits and revs the engine for 5-10 minutes first. I don't know why he thinks it is necessary to do that. I can feel the anger building the longer I have to listen to this noise 

One thing I have noticed is that my traffic related anger and annoyance seems to be directed more towards the drivers. When I'm driving myself I tend to see other cars as inanimate objects and I do not think about or look at who is driving. I'm wondering if that might help in your situation? Do you know if it is the cars or actions of the drivers that trigger your response?

I Sperg  Exactly … I need to start practising mindfulness again, I think! I had a pretty good system not long ago, but a few recent changes seem to have reinvigorated my anger. As you said – it’s mostly in our heads – it’s just hard to remember that sometimes!

Once you realise that very few people in this word set out to be annoying when they get up, yourself included, then it becomes easier to cut them (and yourself) some more slack. 

Externalising your anger (as in "YOU MADE ME DO IT!!!") is utterly pointless.

It's your anger caused by your endocrine system affecting your brain. So it's YOUR (ours, because I suffer from it too!) problem and not theirs.

It's their problem when your existence makes them angry, of course. I'm not always kind in such cases...

When I’m out and about, people can make me seriously angry. For example, the shop assistant in Waitrose the other day. I’d forgotten to scan some chewing gum so called him over. I speak very quietly so maybe he didn’t hear me. Anyway, he said ‘what’ in a tone I didn’t like. I slammed the gum down, infuriated. All I wanted to do was grab his ears and give them a good twist.

I have to remind myself that I’m a 40-year-old, educated man. However, I had serious anger issues in my twenties when I worked in catering. I would throw pans at walls – kick and punch food around the kitchen – and had a vocabulary worse than Gordon Ramsey’s.

Thanks for posting this. I totally get it, but never related it to ASD. In fact I've been told to have anger management in the past. Which at the time I thought was ridiculous.

My main problem is my angry outbursts at people not following the rules, or the rules as I see them, are not internal. I quite often have to talk myself out of a situation because I've shouted at motorist or made a comment to someone. Unfortunately, in a world of people who are increasingly looking for a fight to vent off their own frustrations and insecurity, people are too willing to come and confront you, rather than admit they were speeding, pushed in the queue.

Something I'm working on, but still somethings just get your goat!

Yes, my neighbours security lights provoke a similar reaction in myself. Theres two strands to this. The actual lights make me anxious but the situation makes me feel incredibly angry. I too have tried changing my thought process seeing ftom their perspective etc. It's hard. I want to shout at the top of my voice for them to frig off. I don't want to be subjected to this intermittently when I go out. Or coming through the curtains. I find the lights really offensive. I just kind of have to say to myself "here we go again" but it doesn't really help.

Sorry I have no answers.

I have a very strong sense of justice. My current thing is electric scooters, which I thought were illegal to ride other than on private land. I was recently walking along a narrow made up  path with trees either side and stepped aside as a young person came towards me and it sounded fast as it passed. There are others that pass by my house on the pavement. As there is nothing I can do I try to ignore it, but it concerns me that someone might get injured. 

In your case, if they are breaking the speed limit is it possible to contact someone at the council or maybe a councillor to see if some kind of traffic calming measure can be put in place? This would make it safe for others and give you a way of dealing with it.

There's two aspects to this that I see. 1. Managing the anger and 2 . Managing the situation.

With me sometimes the anger can be quelled by mental gymnastics, but sometimes it cannot it flashes into being like a burning matchead and it is COMING OUT. 

What is Anger?

Some say it is an exaggerated "fight or flight response" and essentially a fear reaction. Caused perhaps by fear of failure or impatience. (Impatience seems to be a sort of insecurity thing, where yo are ultimately afraid that i"f it doesn't get done NOW, it wont get done at all". So yes, there are techniques that will alllow you to shorten your anger response, but they take time to learn, discipline to apply, and sometimes anger is righteous to the situation or can be used as a tool to focus your energy where it needs to be. I use my reserves of anger in certain situations as a tool to obtain specific results, when a calm and pleasant demeanour would be useless and I've practiced switching it on and off quickly. It's a bit like peeing as a man, stopping mid stream is difficult without practiciing...

SO given that it is an issue that you have to work on for a few years, lets look at the situations that cause you anger? Can you for example change a situation that normally angers you, into a situation that does not?

Take walking about in the street where you live:

You point out the incompatibility of wheels and legs very very well indeed. It bothers me so much that I'm seriously trying to figure out a technology that will get the bloody cars off the ground altogether.. But absent that, we and all the birds and creeping animals and deer etc. have to live with the beastly things, or better yet AVOID THEM. 

So to reduce your personal opportunities for anger can you find a walk that keeps you away from the traffic? Of course it won't be the most direct route to the shop etc, but that matters less than yo'd think, if the walk is enjoyable and you avoid the anger then it's a big win for your endocrine system. 

Managing a difficult situation sucessfully to get yourself a good outcome, if you can keep doing it, seems to overall reduce one's propensity to anger.

Any of that helpful? 

FWIW speaking as a "demon driver" myself, I've come to really dislike country roads. If you go too slow you get some "local" stuck up your exhaust pipe, yet not knowing the roads, means you simply cannot drive as fast as they can, and it hard to let em past, so it easy to end up driving too fast. Then there are the creatures that try to cross the road... It's horrible and stressful driving in the rural areas. There's a village I used to drive through really regularly and I can see that it would be a BEAUTIFUL place to live if it didn't have a road running right through the heart of it. For myself, I tend to respect those speed indicating signs that tell you how fast you are going whilst they remind you of the posted speed limit. I tend to think that since they aren't self financing like a speed camera, that someone must really want me to do THAT SPEED here for a good reason, so I tend to comply or at the very least drive to the highest standard of safety that I can manage.