Should I give a tip-sheet to colleagues?

Well done for giving it a go. It still sounds like you've done the right thing. My first thought, was that just saying 'communication is poor, is not helpful. Is it the way you talk? How you put your sentence together? Are a vague or do you not communicate information at all? This bully needs to clarify what aspect of communication is lacking so you have a chance to either find a way to improve or work around it, otherwise they are wasting your time.

Secondly, you've laid your cards on the table so you can help people you work with. If this person is then using that against you, they need to be brought to task. Keep a list and take it to your manager if it persists. Your company should have policies related to the grievance procedure, dignity at work, that sort of thing. It's worth having a look at your HR policies so you have a firm idea of what you need to do if it carries on. Hopefully it won't, but bullies will often get worse if they think they can get away with it. Best arm yourself with knowledge now rather than later.

rox4brains said:

I think the problem is that we (as autistic people) can't understand the malevolence of some of the people who just don't like us.

rox4brains said:

I feel a bit foolish right now: like I was trying to use logic and reason to get around my autism.

I know how you feel. I always approach things in a logical way and expect people to respond in kind, but most people are very illogical, and will lie, and in some cases be malicious. It is difficult for me to comprehend why, so it's a mistake that I keep making. I want the world to make sense but people don't make sense.

Thanks for giving the update. Sharing a letter like this is something I was considering but now I wonder if it would be a bad idea or potentially even cause me to be discriminated against (e.g. for promotion possibilities).

I really appreciate this thread. I've been in work situations that others here have described and my 'coping' mechanisms basically involved laying low (which bullies loved) and also quitting. I didn't know I was on the spectrum back then.

The bullet points shared by rox4brains and nigel are amazing to me. (And I can see myself completely in nigel's list!) However, I see the logic and I love to follow guidelines because it is so pleasing to find out how to make things work better and experience those positive results. I can also see what others have said about non-autistic people not following the logic and essentially lacking that intrinsic motivator to read and and take the advice on board.

I started putting together my own quick tip sheet / guidance. It's along the same lines of helping others to help me help myself. Pointers on how to recognise different states I'm in and make sense of things I say/do that may not make sense. But I recognise to even read that, let alone remember it day-to-day and put it into action, would take quite a bit of time and mental investment from others.

Taking it one step further - I wonder of non-autistic people would feel pressure to follow what might look like 'my rules'. That's not how I'd intend it to come across... But it got me thinking about how great it would be if we understood everyone better along these lines anyway, those on the spectrum and not. I've had reactions from some people that feel I'm making a fuss, demanding attention... I fear that is how my guidance might come across. I wonder if non-autistic people may be jealous of this special treatment. Perhaps they have their own needs that they haven't been able to articulate, let alone voice... People are more likely to get triggered in subjects that are the most trigger-able to them! 

Love the approach of focusing on managers and allies when sharing these tips. These are people who have proven themselves to be motivated to listen and care. They're more likely to be receptive to this info, more likely to follow through and take action.

Pretty sure I'm waffling, but wanted to express my gratitude for the openness of people here in sharing their ideas and lived experiences. You may have just helped at least one other person (me!) avoid being a little too open too soon (again), too trusting too soon (again), and repeating my old habits that haven't got me very far before.

Different things work in different places.   

I did a similar thing at my last place 'so HR can put things in place' and it was used as a manual to screw me over - while just about complying with the law.

Sad to hear that the idea didn't bring positive results. It's just clicking with me how difficult it is sometimes after telling people what I need that it gets overlooked. Sometimes it's unavoidable, everyone can be stretched and there isn't always time to explain to me what's needed up front. Others it is completely so - and it's in those situations I'm likely to get frustrated - especially if I feel I've been put on the spot without a full brief.

As for the bully - people of this type always put me on the back foot (because I literally don't understand them or what motivates them). Even if it's not a paid role that's no excuse for any organisation not to have a process in place to support you if someone is mis-behaving.

The NCVO (National Council for Voluntary Organisations) has some advice which may help

https://www.ncvo.org.uk/ncvo-volunteering/if-volunteering-goes-wrong

rox4brains said:

feel a bit foolish right now: like I was trying to use logic and reason to get around my autism

Don't. You tried something to support people in supporting you. A social experiment which might well have worked in a different setting with different people. That takes guts - especially if it doesn't have the hoped for results. Kudos to you. An article in one of the national newspapers had someone who tried the same thing to see the results  (I'm annoyed I can't find the article to share with you - I'll keep looking). I don't see it as "getting round" your autism - I see what you tried as an experiment in helping people understand our world. Sometimes I feel like I speak a completely different language to NT's. 

My last frustration at work was in a conversation about a "grey area" with some information. Someone told me that they agreed with my rationale but the final decision we were making with it "didn't sit well with them". I lost it (offline) because I thought they were being difficult/lazy in rejecting my conclusion. Then I realised, eventually, that they were stuck at the emotional stage of the decision-making process - they hadn't figured out the rationale behind what - emotionally- they felt we should do. As my psychologist pointed out - sometimes I have to learn to pick up on where people are and learn how to take them with me - and I might not always be successful. I really need help sometimes understanding that - and I haven't plucked up the courage to ask for help with it, or even figured out who I could ask. 

It's weird. We're trying to find our way in a world that hasn't quite figured out how we think (and sometimes vice-versa) and there's a lot of different types of situations and exchanges to navigate. Exploring ways to try and bridge those gaps isn't easy and you have my admiration and respect for giving your idea a go.

Best.

E

nigel said:

It's not helpful to just tell people I'm Autistic as they won't know what to do with that information.

This is what I'm facing. I didn't forsee just telling people I'm on the spectrum is not enough.

It's their problem, not yours. I think you articulated yourself really well (you should've heard my verbal explanation to a colleague today - car crash) and if they're going to try to bully you then they must have very sad lives. 

Thanks so much Nigel! I do fight my corner. I had a similar situation in my main job which I fought. In the end, I lost status and responsibility. On the other hand, I no longer had to work directly with the person who bullied me (who has also bullied others), kept my job, and have found my niche away from the bully. So that's a win (I guess).

My current situation is different. I'm the secretary of an international society related to my field. The bully is also high-up in the organisation. Since it's not a paid role, no HR, no recourse. I've asked one of my colleagues to step in, but that's not really happening.

My understanding is that a lot of autistic people just give up and quit their jobs in these situations, which is why so many are un- or under-employed. I guess I'm really fortunate to have good support around me so that I can tough it out, but I really shouldn't have to. All of the people who have bullied me in the past have also gone on to bully others (including people who I know, for sure, are autistic). I think being autistic makes you a kind of "canary in the coal mine" when it comes to that.

Will fight on!

This is a real shame and upsetting to read about.

Exactly as you say - the malevolence of some of these people is hard to comprehend. I've encountered it myself when working in the NHS years ago. (You'd think the NHS would be more tolerant, but it's the opposite amongst their own staff.)

With respect I do not think you should put up with this bullying. It's also illegal. 

My neighbour's son (who has Asperger's) encountered repeated bullying from a manager while working at Sainsbury's few years ago. The manager was aware of his difficulties but deliberately and repeatedly assigned him tasks that were unsuitable for him, rather than make reasonable adjustments.

Following this, my neighbour contacted a charity called EmployAbility (google their website and contact details). They intervened and sent someone along to personally speak to his manager, and basically ripped them a new one. I understand it was most satisfying....!

If this was me in your situation, I'd note down the occurrences of bullying and have a written summary I could go discuss with either HR or a higher up manager. Also I'd consider ringing or emailing that charity for some advice.

As you say it is often difficult for us to understand what we are dealing with in these situations, but we can instead try and engage those who do understand and can fight for us.

Hope that didn't come across as patronising.... I just really despise bullying. Is it a manager or direct colleague doing this?

I guess a bully will always use whatever info they have against their victim, so there is not much you can do about it.

You started a great conversation and I am probably going to use something similar for my work where people are more open minded. 

Hi everyone,

Bad news on my experiment.

I think this is one of those things where being logical doesn't help. I've tried this now and it's made no positive difference: and possibly a negative one. There is a particular bully who has been on the attack, and she's now used the information against me (saying my communication is poor) rather than try to engage with any of the issues. (I've checked, and I know that's not the problem -- at least not in this case).

I think the problem is that we (as autistic people) can't understand the malevolence of some of the people who just don't like us. They don't want to understand: they just want a convenient scape goat for their own incompetence/laziness or person to take the brunt of their own emotional problems.

I'm not saying the idea is doomed: but I would never try to use it again to stave off problems. Maybe better as one of the other contributors suggested: just as a way to communicate with your boss or ally colleagues.

I feel a bit foolish right now: like I was trying to use logic and reason to get around my autism. I guess the point is that I don't really understand what I'm dealing with and so the logic and reason just doesn't apply.

On the plus side? I never would have thought that being in this community (i.e. your responses) would be so helpful and comforting. Although it's not helping me win the war at work necessarily, just writing this post is helping to calm me down.

Anyway, thanks everyone!

Great idea. I've thought about doing this for a while (even a tag on the end of e-mails with some pointers). Reading what you've written I think I might give this a go.

True about people not reading these things.

I tend to overthink and overanalyse anything written, and my emails can become wordy and far too long. Wheras verbally I struggle to express myself and cannot do it quickly or on demand.

The average Neurotypical recipient glances at the size of my emails, maybe reads the subject header, then completely ignores any and all of the detail

cool i may steal this

We have a 'health passport' in the NHS and I started to fill it in but it is in a simplified format and it makes me feel really infantile so I abandoned it. I don't want to explain to my manager in a way that looks needy. I think your letter is much better but again, I always worry about misinterpretation. I think I'm just going to wait until it comes up naturally. Occupational Health has let my manager know when I started my job but it isnt something that we have had a conversation about yet.

Welcome rox4brains, i'm an engineer at heart and am considering putting together a letter such as this but want to keep it short as you say so that hopefully people will read it.

Hi all,

I like Nigel's letter as well... It feels very comprehensive. I think the problem for me is that, because I work in a lot of diverse teams (both within my organisation -- a huge university -- and outside it), the fact that my line-manager and Head of Department know I'm autistic doesn't really make much difference. (My HoD has an autistic daughter and has been very supportive from when I started the process of getting a diagnosis 2-3 years ago).

The problem comes when dealing with new colleagues on new projects... and I have to negotiate these interactions myself. My thought is that, while things are going well, I will not share any details about my autism. But then, when I can feel trouble brewing, I can share it then. In a weird way, I think it's better for them to have experienced the "problems" of dealing with me before I tell them about them. This way the message should be less abstract.

The other thing with comprehensive letters like Nigel's is that people don't really read them. Believe it or not, I teach communication to engineers (in, as you can imagine, a very systematic way!), and that's one of the first lessons about e-mails: keep them short. I'll probably work on reducing the length of this one over time... if it works at all.

Finally, I just wanted to thank you all for your support here. This is my first time posting and I've really felt grateful for all your support. Just knowing that a lot of people have the same kinds of problems is a real help. Will definitely keep you posted.

Thank you. Thats a very good point.

When I received the diagnostic report (23 pages), the first page essentially had the name of the trust and the summary conclusion. The letter header has the name of the trust and my name and address. I was told I would need to produce the report as evidence of my condition.

Because there was a lot of private and personal stuff in there (and didn't want to be handing that over to anyone other than my doctor), I asked for a version with just the front sheet summary, and the signature of the practioner which was on the final page of the report.

I certainly wasn't asked for this information by HR, but it seemed reasonable to me to hand this over as its proof of a formal diagnosis. I don't think I would be giving them any more than would be on a sickness certificate. Plus this would be of use in the future if I ever have to make a more "difficult to satisfy" request for "reasonable adjustments".

When I went down the path of seeking out a diagnosis, I didn't have any of this in mind (ie seeking reasonable adjustments, workplace changes etc), it was more for personal interest and to explain why I am as I am. But the autism practitioner (who specialised in adult referrals) was very pro-autism and made it clear that I had a legal right to any reasonable adjustments like a quiet work environment, and should push for that.

If you shared your diagnosis with your GP then it should be on your medical records. I'm sure just telling them would suffice. You may benefit from completing a hospital passport too. 

Great letter. So helpful to share these. I will just add that I was told by someone that we do not need to share our diagnosis letters with employers. This is personal health data. Would you need to give an oncologist letter if going off for chemo??